Sorry I don't like it, for me the ones on the right side on the previous images seem to have the perfect balance of a minimalistic but practical design.
Melda GUI improvements
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 21 Jun, 2018
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 21 Jun, 2018
Interesting point of view and ideas. But imo it's much easier for my eyes to get a feeling of all the settings with just a quick glance when there is a line on the knob it stands out more to me.mevla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:38 pm Why is there absolutely a need to draw a line to show where the outside cursor of the knob's end, the one that actually matters, is located ? Is this backed by physiological/psychological data ? People can't see the external cursor drawn around each knob as it is right now in 13.03a when moving them ?
Moreover the behaviour of this already present cursor, as shown with the Panorama parameter above, physically shows that at 50% it is the center of this parameter. That's hard cash, hard to beat. A line inside a knob will never be able to convey this fact for those +/- parameters as it will always visually mean 50%, half way.
And if I have - and surely I eventually will - a lot of modulations going on, I'd prefer to gaze at a UI where I see only the outside cursor of each knob and not those bars or pointers or whatever inside the knobs. Seeing only the outside cursor moving smoothly enables me to have more of a feeling of the flow of modulations than to see 'jagged' edges.
Why stick to the hardware metaphor when the rest of the UI behaves like something totally uprooted from the physical world, a product of software that pops up a large amount of dialog boxes that are not replicated anywhere in the physical world. Your Jupiter-8, Moog, or Roland D-50 synth will not spring forth out of the hardware panel with a dialog box - can't happen. Why stick to some hardware metaphor ?
My two cents.
Cheers.
With the current beta knobs I need to put a little effort, take a second look and a third to get a mental image of the whole settings and setup.
Also I don't like an interface with so many coloured elements, especially big round dots(I mean the knobs) in red or green colours. It's tiring to look at for me.
Well that's another point of view, and approach and I don't mean to say I'm right or wrong, just express my thoughts.
I will love melda plugs with any GUI I believe.
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- KVRian
- 975 posts since 10 Jan, 2007 from London
Widening knob at 0% is at about 10 oclock. Say I turn it up (without a pointer), then come back to it later. I could be a little confused about which end of the arc is which. The pointer makes that clear immediately.
But just generally, for me, knobs without pointers seem unnecessarily minimalistic..faddish, dogmatic.
But just generally, for me, knobs without pointers seem unnecessarily minimalistic..faddish, dogmatic.
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- KVRAF
- 2000 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR
There's another aspect to non-flat and high-contrast gui elements that has nothing to do with hardware emulation, but simply with depth compared to flatness. Flat is trendy to be sure, but there's a deep, human-nervous-system-based reason that drop shadows, for example, are so ubiquitous in virtual space: They instantly trigger the awareness of distinction, contrast, and depth, which any visual maker knows is inherently attention-drawing, at the very least, and is a certain technique, however it's managed, for bringing more basic attractive-ness to any visual experience. I'm not arguing for drop shadows particularly, just for attention being paid to contrast and distinction, just as mevla is doing with the request for frame borders in another thread. A perfect example of where a drop shadow would do the trick…(just saying…:)
To my eye, all the knobs I've seen here are more distinctive and easily taken in when they have a radial line to mark their point of focus, in contrast to all the curves.
To my eye, all the knobs I've seen here are more distinctive and easily taken in when they have a radial line to mark their point of focus, in contrast to all the curves.
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- KVRAF
- 2231 posts since 23 May, 2005 from West Country, UK
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- KVRAF
- 10310 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
goldglob gets it - have a look at the widening knobs on pages 7 and 8 and imaging them without a pointer line.
Anyway, so far we have:
-- dark knob,
-- no central coloured boss,
-- grey, coloured or no pointer line.
@ GNXT - knob colours can be turn off in Settings. As can panel colourization.
Anyway, so far we have:
-- dark knob,
-- no central coloured boss,
-- grey, coloured or no pointer line.
@ GNXT - knob colours can be turn off in Settings. As can panel colourization.
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- KVRist
- 250 posts since 21 Jun, 2018
Yes i know, just expressed my preferencesDarkStar wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:47 am goldglob gets it - have a look at the widening knobs on pages 7 and 8 and imaging them without a pointer line.
Anyway, so far we have:
-- dark knob,
-- no central coloured boss,
-- grey, coloured or no pointer line.
@ GNXT - knob colours can be turn off in Settings. As can panel colourization.
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- KVRist
- 191 posts since 7 Nov, 2002
+1, though I also liked the faint coloring on the Type selection + sliders on page 6. It's not clear to me if that coloring will be an option or if it will remain only a mockup draft. Hope this can be possible as an option, even if not included by default in the new style.
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- KVRAF
- 10310 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
All the images I posted, except jmg8's Hyperspace and the knobs on page 7 with the name above and value below, can be built into a style. They will only be in Neon if Vojtech implements them. But they might be in another style
Last edited by DarkStar on Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 3658 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
There's a very large contextual difference between the two examples.
In the first, dialog box upon dialog box/window, it's about distinguishing two identical forms superimposed with an offset. In which case it can become not as instinctive to, for instance, find the 'X' of a window when their headers are perfectly aligned as I've shown in the screen shot. That's an extreme illustration of the general problem.
In the second example the knobs have no problem at all to distinguish themselves from the background. None whatsoever. No-one has mentioned, "hey, we can't see those knobs very well".
Hence no need for a hardware physical metaphor (3D effect) for the knobs (to pursue the drop shadow route). Even in the first example, there's no need for 3D. A simple thin frame of another colour would do.
This said I like hardware metaphors. But they are not the only type of visual expression allowed by software. There can also be pure software-based visual approaches.
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- KVRAF
- 2000 posts since 5 Jan, 2003 from Brookings, OR
"No-one has mentioned, "hey, we can't see those knobs very well"."
Actually, I did, back on page 3:
Actually, I did, back on page 3:
…and all those other posters who also thumbed them down? I think it's a safe bet that some of them shared my reaction.fwiw, I also prefer the older knobs; easier to distinguish/reach for them amidst all the other controls. The new ones disappear into the b-ground for me, NOT helpful.
But if change they must, I'll live‚ my MSF love undiminished:)
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- KVRAF
- 3658 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
Re: "fwiw, I also prefer the older knobs; easier to distinguish/reach for them amidst all the other controls. The new ones disappear into the b-ground for me, NOT helpful. "
This is subjective IMHO. The previous knobs were black on a (often) dark background (with some 3D effect making a difference with the background), these now in 13.03a and b for instance, are a different colour than the background. Objectively they're easier to distinguish.
I might see what you mean though. At the beginning with Melda plugins - not that long ago actually - I did not like much the default style so after a few tries I settled for the metro style which I still use for MDrummer (rest are Neon). And my first reaction to the Metro style was that I could not "see" the knobs as well. They were right there in front of me but still I stuck to asking "where are they ?" I perceived their flatness as being less visible, that's how my brain connection regarding those was routed. That lasted a short while and I got accustomed to flat knobs, and actually liked them for their conciseness: no distracting 3D. And they gave a digital feeling which harmonized well with the general UI of the plugins. To see that they are adopted in Neon is great. I'll certainly will not complain about the added inside pointer in 13.03b.
This is subjective IMHO. The previous knobs were black on a (often) dark background (with some 3D effect making a difference with the background), these now in 13.03a and b for instance, are a different colour than the background. Objectively they're easier to distinguish.
I might see what you mean though. At the beginning with Melda plugins - not that long ago actually - I did not like much the default style so after a few tries I settled for the metro style which I still use for MDrummer (rest are Neon). And my first reaction to the Metro style was that I could not "see" the knobs as well. They were right there in front of me but still I stuck to asking "where are they ?" I perceived their flatness as being less visible, that's how my brain connection regarding those was routed. That lasted a short while and I got accustomed to flat knobs, and actually liked them for their conciseness: no distracting 3D. And they gave a digital feeling which harmonized well with the general UI of the plugins. To see that they are adopted in Neon is great. I'll certainly will not complain about the added inside pointer in 13.03b.
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- KVRAF
- 3658 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
Well, I can't likewise say
Mostly because I've barely scratched the surface. I can see the wide potential, the incredible creative potential that MSF offers. So it's likely only but a question of time. I still have to watch your videos also.Cheers.
