airwave supersaw

How to make that sound...
Producet
KVRer
3 posts since 26 Mar, 2017

Post Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:51 am

I'm wondering how to do a Supersaw like rank 1 specifically for Serum (or massive or sylenth if they work better). I want to achieve a sound like the Pad sound from Rank 1 - Airwave.

I have looked at supersaw tutorials in Serum on Youtube. But I can't seem to replicate the sound to get the lush, spacy sort of pad sound. What sort of processing is needed to achieve this, or is it layering or something else?


This does a good job on Synth1, but I would prefer to learn on Serum (and it doesn't really show how to make it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9VBb1tO88

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

recursive one
KVRAF
3948 posts since 7 Feb, 2013

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:21 am

Sylenth is tailor-made for such sounds, I think it must have few supersaw patches in the factory banks (Trance Kappa or something).

You can do that in Serum, take the defalut saw wave, set phase to full random, unison to 7-8, detune/blend to taste, repeat the same in the second osc, set in one octave and few cents higher, add a bit of white noise. This way you get the basic supersaw sound. You may add some phaser and reverb (probably external ones would sound better than Serum own FX). But to my taste, Serum's supersaw sounds a bit off, not as lush and coherent as Sylenth.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

CHOOS
KVRist
264 posts since 3 Nov, 2010

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:08 am

Any synth that has a saw, unison, spread can do this. It's setting it to desired sound that matters and perhaps the filter for the build-up
delay and reverb give it the icing on the cake

the FREE Charlatan with spread full and detune set to 18-20 sits about right but really any synth with the above mentions feats can do it
Last edited by CHOOS on Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Kwurqx
KVRist
421 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am

Producet wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:51 am
This does a good job on Synth1, but I would prefer to learn on Serum (and it doesn't really show how to make it)
Huh? The videos shows you in realtime how it's all done (on the classic and free Synth1). The only thing it does not show (as far as I see skipping through the video) is the amount of unison voices. Assuming the classic 7 voice (Roland JP-8000) unison.

Furthermore, there are many articles and tutorials on this classic sound.

If you'really interested in the details, check out the ultimate study on the Supersaw by Adam Szabo.
https://www.nada.kth.se/utbildning/gruk ... _10131.pdf

Adam Szabo also made a JP8000/Supersaw emulator.
https://www.adamszabo.com/jp6k/

chk071
KVRAF
20860 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:27 am

Sounds a tad thin and undefined in Synth1 (well... it's Synth1). I assume the original sound was made on a JP-8000?

In the original, it doesn't even sound as if they used a supersaw, BTW. Rather like chorus'd 2 or 3 saws (or... a chorus'd supersaw). So, ya, try synth of your choice, and use some chorus. IMO, the sound is not very hard to replicate. All the sounds in the track seem pretty simple.

Producet
KVRer
3 posts since 26 Mar, 2017

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Kwurqx wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am
Producet wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:51 am
This does a good job on Synth1, but I would prefer to learn on Serum (and it doesn't really show how to make it)
Huh? The videos shows you in realtime how it's all done (on the classic and free Synth1). The only thing it does not show (as far as I see skipping through the video) is the amount of unison voices. Assuming the classic 7 voice (Roland JP-8000) unison.
Yes I realized I didn't look into the exact detail of each setting, as it has mostly everything in the video to replicate the sound except exact values for tempo delay and chorus.
I was curious to know if it could be done for serum, but it appears that other synths are more suited to the task. (certain synths are better for accomplishing certain sounds)
Also liking what Synth1 is capable of and that it is a virtual analog synth. It's good to know that producers like Mat Zo use it.

Everyone has been of great help and I will take the tips to heart and experiment more.
The information on Supersaws from Adam Szabo is really great, thanks!

EdSfer
KVRist
56 posts since 27 Aug, 2015

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:29 am

Supersaw/unison will sound slightly different from one synth to another, but Serum is more than capable to replicate it, recursive one gave you the recipe to do it :wink:

IMHO you should play with it, and the free synths mentionned in this thread, before thinking about buying a more supersaw-oriented synth.

adamtrance
KVRian
743 posts since 29 Sep, 2004

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:38 am

The Airwave pad sound was indeed made with the JP-80x0 supersaw. JP6K will get you very close to that sound.
http://www.adamszabo.com/ - Synths, soundsets and music

User avatar
Chris-S
KVRAF
2646 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:31 am

Hi,
Synth1 is using 9 partials for it's supersaw.

Image

Kwurqx
KVRist
421 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:57 am

Chris-S wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:31 am
Hi,
Synth1 is using 9 partials for it's supersaw.

Image
Ah, a frequency analyzer and an Oscilloscope answer that one...

About the terminology...

That would be 9 (detuned) unison voices then. Partials as a term is normally used for the individual frequencies (sines) that make up the sound.

Synth1 has "only" 32 oscillators, so you would run out of oscillators real quick (3 x 9 = 27, 4 x 9 = 36). Synth1 will then probably resort to voice stealing. Killing of the "oldest"note(s), when needing an oscillators for new note(s). But since there aren't too many notes running at the same time, only overlapping Releases may be an issue.

The actual Rank1 - Airwave supersaw....
https://youtu.be/gTPSxbQ9sbo?t=172

User avatar
Chris-S
KVRAF
2646 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:39 am

No, Synth1 has a per voice supersaw. So, each of the 32 voices can play a supersaw.

Additionaly there is the unison modus.

Kwurqx
KVRist
421 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:47 am

Chris-S wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:39 am
No, Synth1 has a per voice supersaw. So, each of the 32 voices can play a supersaw.

Additionaly there is the unison modus.
I got curious about this....

Synth1 has been my trusty friend for quite some time. What you describe is not what I remember(ed).

Anyway...

Using Synth1 V1.13 64bit beta3 2014.7. Starting from scratch in Synth1.

If you set the amount of Unison Voices to 8 (the max) and play a single note, Synth1 shows (bottom right in GUI) it's using 8 (of max 32) voices. Adding a second third and fourth note uses up all 32 oscillators. A fifth note steals all 8 oscillators needed from the oldest, first note (which gets killed completely as a consequence).

Exactly the behaviour I remembered and described. Happy to report my memory still serves me right. ;-)
Last edited by Kwurqx on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kwurqx
KVRist
421 posts since 15 Jun, 2017

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:00 am

Additional info....on polyphony and number of oscillators per voice in Synth1

Synth1 has 32 note polyphony. It has 3 oscillators per voice. Oscillator 1, 2 and Sub. Each has its own shapes and behaviour. But Synth1 also has a Detune for Oscillator 1 + Sub which splits Osc1 + Sub into 2 signals, 1 detuned up, 1 detuned down, effectively behaving like 2 equally and opposite direction detuned oscillators. So....you could argue that Synth1 has a max of (1 + 2 + 2) 5 oscillators per voice. But with some restrictions in flexibility....

User avatar
Chris-S
KVRAF
2646 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:02 pm

Yes, I was talking about the detune knob which creates 8 additional waves per voice.
The sound shown in the analyser pic is not using unison.

NatLife
KVRist
363 posts since 12 Jul, 2004

Re: airwave supersaw

Post Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:39 pm

I'm usually made such work for some guys, recreated a sound that they wanted but it was not free. Serum can't do such great Supersaw like it can be in Hive, Dune, or other synth, but anyhow - it can, just maybe do not will sounds so warm like it need.
You can check some of my libraries, i'm usually very often doing Supersaw's, almost for every synth where i'm doing a sounbanks. Some of them can do such Supersaw perfectly alone, some need layering :)

Maybe you can find it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Ymuhx-kMA
https://youtu.be/ZL6NV9nQX0Y?t=149
https://youtu.be/3JlyGqCv96Y?t=45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2EM6HARCY
sample & preset libraries: https://www.natlifesounds.com
Hive 1/2, Serum, NI Massive, Sylenth1, Thorn, Spire, Dune 2/3, The Legend, EUROPA, Repro1/5...

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