Looking for a book or techhnical resource on DSP...
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 15 Oct, 2009
...in particular I'm interested in audio algorithms for filters, and effects such as reverb, chorus and phase, or time stretching. Basically anything that is involved and not mathematically / computationally obvious.
- KVRist
- 186 posts since 28 Jan, 2013 from Oakland
The Art of VA Filter Design by @Z1202 is the best book I've read on filters if you want virtual analog. He has a section on phasers too.
Amazingly he gives it away for free. I'd recommend going to a copy shop and printing it out.
https://www.native-instruments.com/file ... _2.1.0.pdf
Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=350246
Amazingly he gives it away for free. I'd recommend going to a copy shop and printing it out.
https://www.native-instruments.com/file ... _2.1.0.pdf
Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=350246
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- KVRian
- 1273 posts since 9 Jan, 2006
Add to that The Scientist and Engineers Guide to DSP, also free, and Designing Audio Effects Plugins in C++, not free.
Also for DSP maths look to engineering mathematics books, I found one of the (There are a few at different levels) John Bird engineering mathematics books helpful.
(To be honest while The Art of VA filter design claims to be an introductory text - that actually means an introductory text for someone with a high level of mathematics and classical DSP- an important distinction. A great text none the less, but worth keeping in mind depending on your level)
Also for DSP maths look to engineering mathematics books, I found one of the (There are a few at different levels) John Bird engineering mathematics books helpful.
(To be honest while The Art of VA filter design claims to be an introductory text - that actually means an introductory text for someone with a high level of mathematics and classical DSP- an important distinction. A great text none the less, but worth keeping in mind depending on your level)
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- KVRAF
- 1606 posts since 12 Apr, 2002
- KVRist
- 347 posts since 20 Apr, 2005 from Moscow, Russian Federation
For a very introductory level I'd suggest https://www.analog.com/media/en/technic ... torial.pdf (not a book and quite old but still a pretty good easy starting point for the (very basic "digital" level) algorithms specifically mentioned by the OP).
- KVRAF
- 2621 posts since 12 Sep, 2008
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/RO/Onli ... ssing.html
and Vadim's book is great too as already suggested.
and Vadim's book is great too as already suggested.
- KVRian
- 1311 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Italy
+1 for Julius Smith's page on Stanford. I'll also add to spend money on some great books, such the already mentioned Designing Audio Effects Plugin in C++ and DAFX.
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- KVRist
- 46 posts since 5 Nov, 2018
its all there already, formatted, what you want to do i guess is learn enough lingo to get into conversations with some sort of gate keeper wizard and see if you can smooth talk your way into some code snippets that aren't readily available, and thus played out.
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- KVRist
- 440 posts since 1 May, 2009
I have been looking for a good math resource for a while now. Which of Bird's books did you find helpful? Were there any notable strengths and weaknesses with it?matt42 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:16 pm Add to that The Scientist and Engineers Guide to DSP, also free, and Designing Audio Effects Plugins in C++, not free.
Also for DSP maths look to engineering mathematics books, I found one of the (There are a few at different levels) John Bird engineering mathematics books helpful.
(To be honest while The Art of VA filter design claims to be an introductory text - that actually means an introductory text for someone with a high level of mathematics and classical DSP- an important distinction. A great text none the less, but worth keeping in mind depending on your level)
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- KVRian
- 1273 posts since 9 Jan, 2006
Apologies, it's a while since I read the book and may have the wrong impression on that point. I would stand by it having a higher bar for entry than some people may expect for an introductory text, but I dont mean that as a criticism.
A while since I read it, but it was the Higher Engineering Mathematics one which claims to suitable up to degree level engineering. It starts with the basics of algebra and trig, which may or may not be helpful depending on what you need and goes on to cover stuff like complex numbers, calculus, differential equations, laplace transforms and plenty of other stuff. The explanations were clear, to me at least, and there is an emphasis on working through problems, which I found useful to help memorise things, but might seem like a wast if you absorb the content more easily.sellyoursoul wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 10:02 pmI have been looking for a good math resource for a while now. Which of Bird's books did you find helpful? Were there any notable strengths and weaknesses with it?
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- KVRist
- 440 posts since 1 May, 2009
Thanks matt42. It seems very common that people will recommend the same sorts of books to beginners, such as The Art of VA Filter Design, that will be way over a beginner's head. I have looked at that book in the past (because it was recommended for a beginner), and it should NOT be a recommended dsp beginner book, as you pointed out. On the other hand, I have read a little of The Scientist and Engineers Guide to DSP, and I did understand what I read within my math abilities. But my math education is very basic. So one of those books by Bird look to be a good fit for me. Maybe Comprehensive Engineering Mathematics, since it seems to cover everything that is in Bird's other books titled Basic Engineering Mathematics, Engineering Mathematics, and Higher Engineering Mathematics. It looks like a giant tomb though at 1200 pages.
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- KVRAF
- 1606 posts since 12 Apr, 2002
With the risk of sounding annoying I'd like to point out that there is a difference between a DSP beginner and beginner in advanced math. Advanced math (calculus and complex algebra) is a prerequisite, DSP isn't and may be even harmful.sellyoursoul wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 am Thanks matt42. It seems very common that people will recommend the same sorts of books to beginners, such as The Art of VA Filter Design, that will be way over a beginner's head. I have looked at that book in the past (because it was recommended for a beginner), and it should NOT be a recommended dsp beginner book, as you pointed out.
Edit. Therefore claiming the preliminary DSP knowledge is necessary can be highly misleading for potential readers who already have the necessary math skills and also possibly for those who don't, but might be willing to obtain them elsewhere independently of DSP.
- KVRAF
- 7867 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland
Z1202 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 7:02 amWith the risk of sounding annoying I'd like to point out that there is a difference between a DSP beginner and beginner in advanced math. Advanced math (calculus and complex algebra) is a prerequisite, DSP isn't and may be even harmful.sellyoursoul wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:47 am Thanks matt42. It seems very common that people will recommend the same sorts of books to beginners, such as The Art of VA Filter Design, that will be way over a beginner's head. I have looked at that book in the past (because it was recommended for a beginner), and it should NOT be a recommended dsp beginner book, as you pointed out.
Well "advanced math" as in basic undergraduate engineering math (ie. basically the stuff that every EE student at least around here learns during their freshman year). For a math student, that would hardly be "advanced" in any sense of the word.
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- KVRAF
- 1606 posts since 12 Apr, 2002
I'd guess that most of engineers (not just EE) would learn that math. So "advanced" in the "non-engineering" sense, yes. Otherwise, it's basic analysis
Edit: in Russian there is a term "higher math" which basically means everything above school level, starting with calculus and linear algebra. I'm not aware of a comparable unambiguous term in English.
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- KVRist
- 440 posts since 1 May, 2009
Should it be implied that anyone who is interested in dsp should already have an engineering background? Or should that be a question that is raised when someone asks about learning dsp? I would think that many more people (such as myself) have a naive interest in dsp without having an engineering background or even an understanding of the prerequisite knowledge for beginning into dsp.
Also, alot of what I have read from engineering students and engineers is that they take the required math courses at university but do not gain a real understanding of the math. And I have talked to quite a number of people who have taken math courses at university (including math majors and instructors) who didn't gain an understanding of what was being 'taught'. In other words, they learned the required steps for completing bookwork but didn't come away with good conceptual understanding and therefore lack the ability to apply math in solving real problems. One math instructor who I know and who has won state teaching awards for math told me that his understanding in math eventually came around after years of teaching math at university.
So then somone who is trying to self-study math for dsp outside of a university environment is doing so from an approach of attempting to understand the math for solving problems rather than completing busy work and passing a long series of tests for completing requirements of a degree. And it quickly becomes obvious that most math books aren't well written for understanding, much less self-study, but rather for hitting checkpoints of math education standards requirements.
But apparently a minority do end up with a good understanding of the math for dsp, else no one would be doing new work in dsp and other engineering. But those people do seem to be in the small minority.
Also, alot of what I have read from engineering students and engineers is that they take the required math courses at university but do not gain a real understanding of the math. And I have talked to quite a number of people who have taken math courses at university (including math majors and instructors) who didn't gain an understanding of what was being 'taught'. In other words, they learned the required steps for completing bookwork but didn't come away with good conceptual understanding and therefore lack the ability to apply math in solving real problems. One math instructor who I know and who has won state teaching awards for math told me that his understanding in math eventually came around after years of teaching math at university.
So then somone who is trying to self-study math for dsp outside of a university environment is doing so from an approach of attempting to understand the math for solving problems rather than completing busy work and passing a long series of tests for completing requirements of a degree. And it quickly becomes obvious that most math books aren't well written for understanding, much less self-study, but rather for hitting checkpoints of math education standards requirements.
But apparently a minority do end up with a good understanding of the math for dsp, else no one would be doing new work in dsp and other engineering. But those people do seem to be in the small minority.