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Psuper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:16 pm Lets start talking about that Reason Sound -- I know I sure haven't heard about it enough, looks like a good time to rehash it!

Perception is constantly skewed by minuscule amounts of information that our brains process in any given moment, quite meshed together and untrustworthy. I could load up a song in cubase with a bright red theme, change the theme to blue and most people will perceive the sound differently.
I doubt that, to be honest. At least that's not how my brain works.

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chk071 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:15 am
jens wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:24 am They sound exactly the same, as they should - otherwise at least one of them would be broken. There have been countless nulling tests been done over the years by various folks that prove that all normal DAWs sum correctly and thus all deliver the exact same result.
While this is factually right ("they sound the same"), if they only null up to a certain level, there is a difference. It's funny, because, typically, people say that you should not trust your ears, but rather measure, while, in this case, it's all about trusting your ears. ;) Even though, as i mentioned, i think i hear a difference, but, i rather take that for what it is, a perception, no actual proof.
If the DAWs are digital (which all of them are, hence the "D") and are operating with the same numerical precision (64 bit these days) and do not color the sound on purpose (which I think only Mixbus does) they have to sound identical. Otherwise one of them would indeed be broken. DAWs literally only move bits from one audio processing unit to the next. Having said that, there is usually a little bit of audio processing the DAWs does when summing the tracks. That could theoretically make a difference. But I very much doubt that that is audible in any way.
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.

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cubases zeros are smoother.

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mgw38 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:57 am
Trancit wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 9:28 am Just a silly question:

If I buy the crossgrade to Cubase Pro, can I install and use Elements as long as I don´t have the dongle??
Means does having a license for Pro means having a license for Artist and Elements as well??
No. You would need to have a Cubase license locally on your computer if you want to use Elements without a dongle. You can only put an Elements license on your computer. And Artist and Pro are the same software program. It will start as Pro or Artist depending on the license it finds.

This is correct.^^^^

Another way to put it is that if you buy the Pro crossgrade, you get a Pro license only - but that Pro license allows you to run any version.
But no - you don't also get a separate Elements license without buying it. I have purchased all 3 licenses over the years - Pro, Artist, and Elements.

To run run Pro or Artist, you have to have a license for it on a dongle, and the dongle has to be plugged into the computer.
With the dongle in, if you have a Pro license you can run any of the 3 - Pro, Artist, or Elements.
If you have the dongle in and an Artist license you can run Artist or Elements.

With just an Elements license, you can run it without a dongle, or if you want to use it on more than one computer, transfer the license to a dongle.
In that case, you can use it on many computers (one at a time), but it will still just run Elements.
Last edited by felis on Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mgw38 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:25 pm
chk071 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 11:15 am
jens wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:24 am They sound exactly the same, as they should - otherwise at least one of them would be broken. There have been countless nulling tests been done over the years by various folks that prove that all normal DAWs sum correctly and thus all deliver the exact same result.
While this is factually right ("they sound the same"), if they only null up to a certain level, there is a difference. It's funny, because, typically, people say that you should not trust your ears, but rather measure, while, in this case, it's all about trusting your ears. ;) Even though, as i mentioned, i think i hear a difference, but, i rather take that for what it is, a perception, no actual proof.
If the DAWs are digital (which all of them are, hence the "D") and are operating with the same numerical precision (64 bit these days) and do not color the sound on purpose (which I think only Mixbus does) they have to sound identical. Otherwise one of them would indeed be broken. DAWs literally only move bits from one audio processing unit to the next. Having said that, there is usually a little bit of audio processing the DAWs does when summing the tracks. That could theoretically make a difference. But I very much doubt that that is audible in any way.
If they'd be completely identical, they'd null to infinity. At least that's how i understand it.

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Trancit wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 9:28 am Just a silly question:

If I buy the crossgrade to Cubase Pro, can I install and use Elements as long as I don´t have the dongle??
Means does having a license for Pro means having a license for Artist and Elements as well??
I have Cubase elements 10 trial installed, which tells me how many days trial I have left upon booting.

With the dongle in it boots normally as if it was licensed - remove the dongle, and it goes back into trial mode.

I fired up e-licenser and the dongle only contains the Cubase License, - make of that what you will.

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I thought these posts are interesting and show that some DAWs will sound different when doing fades and automation:

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... iffer.html

https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... ation.html

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vurt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm cubases zeros are smoother.
:lol:

Yes, they are not as slashed as some of the others.
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.

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vurt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm cubases zeros are smoother.
I disagree, they only look smooth when small, if you enlarge them enough you can see the zig-zaggy edges, therefore making the digital thingies not as digitally - and therefore un-smoothing the smooth sound.

Other DAWs have smoother sound because they have less zigs and zags on the zeros.

Lets not bog this down by getting into the digital 1's at this juncture.
Last edited by dellboy on Sun May 19, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chk071 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:20 pm
Psuper wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:16 pm Lets start talking about that Reason Sound -- I know I sure haven't heard about it enough, looks like a good time to rehash it!

Perception is constantly skewed by minuscule amounts of information that our brains process in any given moment, quite meshed together and untrustworthy. I could load up a song in cubase with a bright red theme, change the theme to blue and most people will perceive the sound differently.
I doubt that, to be honest. At least that's not how my brain works.
It was just one minor example, however its a fact that light, and color specifically, affects us in ways that go far beyond what most people expect. Regardless, the shape of your ears, a slight shift in your seat, tiny adjustment of angle during listening, someone standing near you who moved slightly etc can make a perceptible spatial difference, and those could be more impactful audibly compared to something relatively minor such as light and color.

The point is few people actually know, or is immediately aware of, what affects their perception. Individual self-awareness and confidence in what is perceived varies greatly, often based on opinion than fact, which also affects another individuals acceptance of said perception.

The point is, its a pointless discussion, at least from my perception.
Have you tried Vital?

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dellboy wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 2:18 pm
Trancit wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 9:28 am Just a silly question:

If I buy the crossgrade to Cubase Pro, can I install and use Elements as long as I don´t have the dongle??
Means does having a license for Pro means having a license for Artist and Elements as well??
I have Cubase elements 10 trial installed, which tells me how many days trial I have left upon booting.

With the dongle in it boots normally as if it was licensed - remove the dongle, and it goes back into trial mode.

I fired up e-licenser and the dongle only contains the Cubase License, - make of that what you will.
You can run Elements with a Pro license but you have to have the dongle connected at which point running Elements becomes a bit pointless. You still need an Elements license if you want to run it dongle-free.

Somebody here suggested to use Elements as a companion software for these AfD (away from dongle) moments. If you have an LE or AI license somewhere (comes free with a variety of hardware products) you can currently upgrade that to Elements for 25$. I did that a few days ago.
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.

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mgw38 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 2:19 pm
vurt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm cubases zeros are smoother.
:lol:

Yes, they are not as slashed as some of the others.
Reaper has the smoothest zeros.

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reggie1979 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:37 pm
mgw38 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 2:19 pm
vurt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:30 pm cubases zeros are smoother.
:lol:

Yes, they are not as slashed as some of the others.
Reaper has the smoothest zeros.
:roll:
don't be silly.
reaper uses 2s and 3s as its superior in every way to everything ever!

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chk071 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:37 pm If they'd be completely identical, they'd null to infinity. At least that's how i understand it.

Nope, as there are rounding errors. These are completely inaudible though.
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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I fired up Cubase Pro 10 today and my soft e-licensor shows up as deactivated with all licenses on it showing up as expired.
This did not happen before today after crossgrading.
My Products page shows them all activated without error messages.
E-Licensor app says to consult products vendor.
Does anyone know why this happens/happened and how I can fix without contacting support and opening a ticket?
Thanks for any help.

Edit: Cleaning up e-licensor memory appears to have fixed it.
Last edited by Musical Gym on Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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