Synth1: anyone else notice extreme very-low-end output on many patches?

[robohymn]

As the title says.

Killing time recently I started making a Synth1 bank, and was watching the output on a spectrum analyzer.

When any of the LP filters are engaged, on many (but not all) patches, Synth1 outputs EXTREME low-end energy, like around 15-25Hz or so. Extreme enough that it peaks higher than the sound I *intend* it to make, it's that bad.

So I checked a whole lot of patches, from Daichi's factory bank to a bunch of KVR ones to my own, most patches with LP engaged are afflicted to some degree.

Getting rid of that very-low-end is incredibly difficult, it takes very steep filtering, no EQ could do it. I must have never noticed before because the frequencies are so low you can't hear them, but there's a very noticeable improvement in sound when you filter it out downstream (TDR Nova's high-pass does the job, but I went through a lot of filters and EQs!)

Maybe nobody cares, Synth1 is getting old and may be abandoned, but dammit, I love this synth. Probably my all-time favourite softsynth (maybe I should get out more?)

Thanks.

[planetearth]

As the title says.

Killing time recently I started making a Synth1 bank, and was watching the output on a spectrum analyzer.

When any of the LP filters are engaged, on many (but not all) patches, Synth1 outputs EXTREME low-end energy, like around 15-25Hz or so. Extreme enough that it peaks higher than the sound I *intend* it to make, it's that bad.

So I checked a whole lot of patches, from Daichi's factory bank to a bunch of KVR ones to my own, most patches with LP engaged are afflicted to some degree.

Getting rid of that very-low-end is incredibly difficult, it takes very steep filtering, no EQ could do it. I must have never noticed before because the frequencies are so low you can't hear them, but there's a very noticeable improvement in sound when you filter it out downstream (TDR Nova's high-pass does the job, but I went through a lot of filters and EQs!)

Maybe nobody cares, Synth1 is getting old and may be abandoned, but dammit, I love this synth. Probably my all-time favourite softsynth (maybe I should get out more?)

Thanks.

Which version, the 32-bit or the new, 64-bit?

What happens if you create your own basic patch, do you still have the problem?

Steve

[robohymn]

64 bit. I first noticed while making a pad the other day, heard some distortion that shouldn't be there and checked a spectrum analyzer, then checked a bunch of random patches, most were afflicted, but many weren't. It seems to maybe be the LP filters, but may have somethng to do with PW, from what I can tell, but it's not like I'll discover much useful. Should check the 32 bit version, now that I'm curious.

[574X]

This happens all the time on tons of synths and effects. Use any high pass filter to solve it. If it's a huge one go for the x4 48 dB slope high pass filter on any eq.
Nowadays often a sub sine layer is there anyway so you can highpass everything else.
Another tip is to always do sound design, mixing, and mastering with a spectrum analyzer open. You can resize Reaper's native one (also available in ReaPlgus ReaJS). I like an FFT of 8192.

[planetearth]

This happens all the time on tons of synths and effects. Use any high pass filter to solve it. If it's a huge one go for the x4 48 dB slope high pass filter on any eq.
Nowadays often a sub sine layer is there anyway so you can highpass everything else.
Another tip is to always do sound design, mixing, and mastering with a spectrum analyzer open. You can resize Reaper's native one (also available in ReaPlgus ReaJS). I like an FFT of 8192.

It happens a lot in ROMplers where the samples weren't cleaned up properly, yes. I haven't heard it on many synths, and I put a filter on each channel, so I've been checking for this for a while. If I do see a lot of low-frequency audio in the analyzer on a synth patch, it's usually an audible part of the patch, and not a side-effect of PW settings or a sub-oscillator that's out of control. And it's never below 40 Hz, or down where it would no longer be "musical".

Maybe there's just something with the way Synth1 works that does this under certain circumstances.

An analyzer and filter on each channel is an option, but as the OP said, he's finding it difficult to remove the noise. Sonar has EQ and high-res analyzers built in to each channel, so it's easy for me to throw a filter onto a channel (up to 48 dB/octave) to remove the junk. That said, if I had to patch in an EQ/filter and analyzer into each channel each time I loaded Synth1, I'd be pretty bothered.

@robohymn, which DAW are you using? Does it not offer per-channel EQ and frequency analysis? If not, Voxengo has some decent freebies that should fill the bill.

Steve

[planetearth]

As the title says.

Killing time recently I started making a Synth1 bank, and was watching the output on a spectrum analyzer.

When any of the LP filters are engaged, on many (but not all) patches, Synth1 outputs EXTREME low-end energy, like around 15-25Hz or so. Extreme enough that it peaks higher than the sound I *intend* it to make, it's that bad.

So I checked a whole lot of patches, from Daichi's factory bank to a bunch of KVR ones to my own, most patches with LP engaged are afflicted to some degree.

Getting rid of that very-low-end is incredibly difficult, it takes very steep filtering, no EQ could do it. I must have never noticed before because the frequencies are so low you can't hear them, but there's a very noticeable improvement in sound when you filter it out downstream (TDR Nova's high-pass does the job, but I went through a lot of filters and EQs!)

Maybe nobody cares, Synth1 is getting old and may be abandoned, but dammit, I love this synth. Probably my all-time favourite softsynth (maybe I should get out more?)

Thanks.

By the way, which patches are you talking about? I'll install Synth1 and check some specific "factory" patches, if those are some you're having trouble with.

And yes, TDR Nova should do the job, but no, you shouldn't have to do it in the first place!

Steve

[fluffy_little_something]

Some effect plugins include a DC remover, maybe that would help.

[Chris-S]

Are you using the mac or win version?

Never noticed this kind of problem, please name some patches which are affected.

[SciFiArtMan]

Yes, I've noticed this too, especially on some Synth1 patches. As Fluffy mentioned, many DAWs have a function to remove or reduce such (DC) subsonic artifacts from the output, which is great because I can't imagine ever (or rarely) desiring these frequencies running wild down there. I'm surprised as popular as Synth1 was/is, there wasn't/isn't more chatter about this annoying effect!?

[yul]

Guys just fired up Synth1 and couldn't resist trying this. I gave SPAN a run and was not able to find harmonics undere the fundamental. Has anything changed since 2 years ago? I think this one sounds quite unique in a nice way. It's certainly very digital which is nice even considering some of it's imperfections.

[Mutant]

Guys just fired up Synth1 and couldn't resist trying this. I gave SPAN a run and was not able to find harmonics undere the fundamental. Has anything changed since 2 years ago? I think this one sounds quite unique in a nice way. It's certainly very digital which is nice even considering some of it's imperfections.

+1
Must be user error.

Also saying "many patches" is not helpful at all, just name a few of them, then we can check and identify the cause.

[surreal]

Is this on the pc or mac version

[yul]

Glad to hear this also doesn't seem the case on your side and that the spectrum is clear below fundamental!

This should be the same under PC or Mac.

[chk071]

"Harmonics under the fundamental"? Isn't that a oxymoron? Thought those were called subharmonics.

This is something i noticed once on Electra2, by the way. The dev since seems to have fixed that though, because, i couldn't reproduce it in a newer version.

[yul]

Yah I meant under the "intended fundamental" or to your point subharmonics! Cheers