Why Can't We Get A CS-80 VST That Actually Sounds Like a CS-80?

[zerocrossing]

modern vsts and hybrid sample/synthesis instruments can approximate the
cs-80 pretty well. See for example the end-to-end cover of the Bladerunner score
by Edgar Rothermich done with pre-version 2 omnisphere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Qjzj5pjK4

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=edgar+rother ... nb_sb_noss

Actually, i'd argue that that's a good example of why it is not that easy to replicate such sounds. It's a nice recreation all in all, but, that sax-like synth sound sounds a lot more sterile than in the original.

That is what I argued also (maybe not clearly enough). The sound can get quite close but not exactly and
also not as effortlessly as the original instrument. For example the Peter Schilling
Bladerunner Blues piece quoted earlier in the thread gets reasonably close to the
original but only with a ton of automation (the arturia instrument is not expressive enough
to be played organically to the same effect).

Is the synth not expressive, or is it the controller? One of the first things I did when I got my polyphonic aftertouch enabled keyboard (GEM S2) is go to all the software that I knew responded to it, and it really makes a huge difference. One thing I’d urge any developer to do when creating a CS-80 emulator is to make sure it’s also MPE compatible.

[cfanyc]

Is the synth not expressive, or is it the controller? One of the first things I did when I got my polyphonic aftertouch enabled keyboard (GEM S2) is go to all the software that I knew responded to it, and it really makes a huge difference. One thing I’d urge any developer to do when creating a CS-80 emulator is to make sure it’s also MPE compatible.

MPE is absolutely essential. Regarding the arturia, i think it is the limitations of the synth
compounded by limitations of controllers + daws (eg few daws are mpe capable).

Let's not forget that the expressiveness of the synth is not determined only by mpe support
but by its instabilities/randomness/detuning/non-linearities/noise (real or simulated),
and the types and implementation of the full set of modulations. All of these (not just the sound
sources and filters and layer architecture and fx) need be modelled (or recreated in hw) fully and accurately to get a 100% cs-80 sound, and nobody has achieved that to date unfortunately.

[himalaya]

one more thing for those who say there is nothing special about
the cs-80: this video is from a partially restored (!) unit played
thru a lex 224 reverb.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2011 ... d-sampler/

If one cannot hear the richness of the sound, even via crappy recording and youtube
conversion then it is time for a visit to the ear doc!

Well, I'd like to hear that richness without the Lexicon 224XL reverb, which can make even a Casio VL1 sound like a million dollar synth.

When I want to hear the CS80 in all its glory I turn to the Beaubourg album by Vanglis. The reverb here is much more controlled and does not mask the underlying sounds as much as it does in the Synthtopia example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8u7C77K1aQ

[pdxindy]

modern vsts and hybrid sample/synthesis instruments can approximate the
cs-80 pretty well. See for example the end-to-end cover of the Bladerunner score
by Edgar Rothermich done with pre-version 2 omnisphere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Qjzj5pjK4

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=edgar+rother ... nb_sb_noss

Actually, i'd argue that that's a good example of why it is not that easy to replicate such sounds. It's a nice recreation all in all, but, that sax-like synth sound sounds a lot more sterile than in the original.

It's very well done... lots of skill to get close... But yeah... it misses the subtlety and organic depth. There are lots of little tonal variations in the original that aren't in the recreation... the vst version sounds more static and constant, like the same sound louder or softer, filtered a little more and so on.

[pdxindy]

modern vsts and hybrid sample/synthesis instruments can approximate the
cs-80 pretty well. See for example the end-to-end cover of the Bladerunner score
by Edgar Rothermich done with pre-version 2 omnisphere:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Qjzj5pjK4

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=edgar+rother ... nb_sb_noss

Actually, i'd argue that that's a good example of why it is not that easy to replicate such sounds. It's a nice recreation all in all, but, that sax-like synth sound sounds a lot more sterile than in the original.

That is what I argued also (maybe not clearly enough). The sound can get quite close but not exactly and
also not as effortlessly as the original instrument.

And it is not that a bit more skill or time could get it... Analog still has something to it.

[goldenanalog]

[pdxindy]

When I want to hear the CS80 in all its glory I turn to the Beaubourg album by Vanglis. The reverb here is much more controlled and does not mask the underlying sounds as much as it does in the Synthtopia example:

No VST could do that. It sounds amazing!

[donkey tugger]

I prefer Demis Roussos.

[BONES]

How many listeners will spot the difference between a real analogue synth and a vst?

More to the point, of those who did notice, how many would a) care, and b) notice because the VST actually sounds better? Take those two groups out and you'd be left with nobody.

[waltercruz]

BTW, Paul Schilling did the Lead patch for Deckard Dream too

https://soundcloud.com/paul-schilling/d ... blues-demo

[zerocrossing]

How many listeners will spot the difference between a real analogue synth and a vst?

More to the point, of those who did notice, how many would a) care, and b) notice because the VST actually sounds better? Take those two groups out and you'd be left with nobody.

People know, though they might not have the words to express it. Once I was at a Guitar Center with my wife. I was messing about with a Moog Slim Phatty. She pointed out a Roland Gaia and said, “why not this one? Seems like it does more.” I didn’t know much about the Gaia, so I took it for a spin for a bit and mid way she said, “The other one sounds a lot better.” She was totally right, but she’d be the first person to say, “I can’t hear the difference” if you actually put her on the spot and asked her.

[BONES]

You seem to assume the real thing will sound better but I'd be surprised if that was the case. The reality is that in 99% of situations, 99% of people wouldn't even know it was a CS80. I wouldn't have a clue what a CS80 sounds like and I've been buying and using synths for going on 40 years.

In your example you are also talking about one synth that costs twice as much as another. That the cheap one is a Roland also makes it likely anyone would notice the difference.

[AnX]

Well, I'd like to hear that richness without the Lexicon 224XL reverb, which can make even a Casio VL1 sound like a million dollar synth.

For Sale: Casio VL1 - $1m

[Cinebient]

Purists take over....

[Cinebient]

When I want to hear the CS80 in all its glory I turn to the Beaubourg album by Vanglis. The reverb here is much more controlled and does not mask the underlying sounds as much as it does in the Synthtopia example:

No VST could do that. It sounds amazing!

This is not a fact but just a meaning. I personally really like the tone and the composition (more important here) but for me most 5 dollar apps could sound even better these days.
At the end we just should use what we think makes us happy.
But maybe a reason i´m so a fan of the P900 sound since i read somewhere it has a lot little randomization f.e. also in the envelopes. You won´t get a perfect psy bass out of it but it feels some kind of most organic and alive while playing and tweaking in realtime i feel with no other synth as much.
A reason i like Moogs Animoog app so much. It has not the most juicy and phat sound but the way you can play it makes it so expressive (same with Model D and Model 15 and some MPE desktop synths like The Legend).
Whatever...seems like another hardware vs. software thing which at the end is just important for the creator and does not matter for any listener (since NO ONE would hear a different at the end between a 10000 dollar hardware, 100 dollar plug-in or 5 dollar app with the right FX and mixing behind it).
In general a lot praise goes to certain instruments while i think it is 99% the artist and nothing else.