Maschine or Akai

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)
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SLiC wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 pm You either like MPC workflow or you don't, but many people have have hit records with the MPC, they manage somehow, after all AKAI invented the MPC (well, AKAI and Roger Linn).
People have made hit records with simple tape decks and vinyl decks. Just because you can make a hit record doesn't describe the complexity of the instrument. The MPC Live is stupidly simplistic. There's no way around that.. no marketing bullshit can spin the truth once you look even a little bit deeper.

Just look at the lack of modulation you can do on the filter. You can literally modulate the filter with the envelope only in one direction. Several other parameters can also be modulated only in one direction. The unit is littered with these limitations at the very core of it's operation.

These are quirks.. not features. Not "workflow". People keep calling the MPC stupidly limited and archaic operation "workflow". It's not. It's just archaic and silly.

Give a basic iPad with some samples to a talented artist and they can create a hit record. Heck even FL Studio way back in the day when it couldn't do almost anything was used to create hit records. It's beside the point.

Just look at all the MPC youtube tutorials. They are ridiculously simplistic and obvious.. because the unit is ridiculously simplistic and obvious (limited).

Don't get me wrong, it's gotten better with each update. The last two updates were pretty significant but neither of them addressed simple lacking core issues nor did they drastically improve the archaic operation (though they did improve it a bit with the ability to use shift+pad to select a menu directly).
Last edited by bmanic on Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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In my case, I just want something I can use that sort of feels like Maschine but I don't have to lug around a laptop with the Maschine software to use it. And it would be nice to be able to change tempos and time signatures for different sections of the tune.

The iPad based iMachine product turned out to be a bit of a turd. Very limited in what it can do. A toy. It pales to what Korg did with Kord Gadget and Steinberg did with Cubasis. iMaschine seems like a little marketing gimic to get people sucked into the Maschine ecosystem. just my experience with it.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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In my case, I just want something I can use that sort of feels like Maschine but I don't have to lug around a laptop with the Maschine software to use it. And it would be nice to be able to change tempos and time signatures for different sections of the tune.

The iPad based iMachine product turned out to be a bit of a turd. Very limited in what it can do. A toy. It pales to what Korg did with Kord Gadget and Steinberg did with Cubasis. iMaschine seems like a little marketing gimic to get people sucked into the Maschine ecosystem. just my experience with it.

I will try to find time to try out a live and see how it goes. If just has to be able to do odd time signatures otherwise its a no go.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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bmanic wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:21 pm
SLiC wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 pm You either like MPC workflow or you don't, but many people have have hit records with the MPC, they manage somehow, after all AKAI invented the MPC (well, AKAI and Roger Linn).
People have made hit records with simple tape decks and vinyl decks. Just because you can make a hit record doesn't describe the complexity of the instrument. The MPC Live is stupidly simplistic. There's no way around that.. no marketing bullshit can spin the truth once you look even a little bit deeper.

Just look at the lack of modulation you can do on the filter. You can literally modulate the filter with the envelope only in one direction. Several other parameters can also be modulated only in one direction. The unit is littered with these limitations at the very core of it's operation.

These are quirks.. not features. Not "workflow". People keep calling the MPC stupidly limited and archaic operation "workflow". It's not. It's just archaic and silly.

Give a basic iPad with some samples to a talented artist and they can create a hit record. Heck even FL Studio way back in the day when it couldn't do almost anything was used to create hit records. It's beside the point.

Just look at all the MPC youtube tutorials. They are ridiculously simplistic and obvious.. because the unit is ridiculously simplistic and obvious (limited).

Don't get me wrong, it's gotten better with each update. The last two updates were pretty significant but neither of them addressed simple lacking core issues nor did they drastically improve the archaic operation (though they did improve it a bit with the ability to use shift+pad to select a menu directly).

Obviusly its not for you, as Maschine wasn't for me (but then I like hardware :D ). I general use my Octotrack for mangling and RYTM for drum patterns, but I haven't found anything faster or easier to get a drum track/groove out with than the LIVE which is also what I connected to my turntable when I want to sample.
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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I own a MPC Renaissance, MPC Studio Black and Maschine MK2. The pad controllers are not the newest models, but the software is up-to-date for both platforms.

With that said, I much prefer the MPC workflow and hardware, but the Maschine software updates tend to be more stable. It really boils down to a matter of preference, as either option will give you the tools to make good music.

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I completely disagree with all the nonsense people are posting. You cannot use more than one time signature in Maschine, if you have any interest in any sort of complex music Maschine is a PITA, period. I completely 100% do not care as much about features you can add in to a sequencer as much as I care about the sequencer itself, and the sequencer in Maschine is a pile of shit.

I own Maschine Studio, the integration with the hardware is great, the actual implementation of a song mode, the whole experience of creating a song in Maschine sucks. Patterns and Groups? fantastic, the rest garbage. NI have completely lost the plot.

Don't take my word for it, the Maschine forums are a constant onslaught of disappointment, with mods joining in even. Compare that to the 1 million+ views MPC live thread on Gearslutz, where a the head of product development stops by to chat and talk about features etc.

Anyway I get that we all want different things, but if odd time signatures and updates are important to you, AKAI are whipping NI's ass, no doubt about it.

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machinesworking wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:15 am Don't take my word for it, the Maschine forums are a constant onslaught of disappointment, with mods joining in even. Compare that to the 1 million+ views MPC live thread on Gearslutz, where a the head of product development stops by to chat and talk about features etc.
This I can agree with. However it's worth noting that this is a first for Akai. The MPC Live and X are literally the first products in over a decade that Akai have actually decided to properly support and update. They have been notoriously bad in this area before.. which is why it takes a great leap of faith to fully give them the benefit of a doubt that they've changed.

We'll see. The only reason I haven't sold my MPC yet is because I do like the portability and the ability to carry an actual sampler/drum machine in my backpack and play it anywhere I want in the world. I also like how "tight" it feels to play, that is it seems to have really low internal latency. Must be some of that Linux magic behind the scenes.

I probably also give the MPC such a hard time as it so easy to see the potential for greatness. If Akai only updated the basic core functions, making common things like deleting automation, properly layering sounds (this 100% needs phase flip!), copying and deleting pad content, editing samples etc a whole lot more streamlined. There are so many areas where a single click or a maximum of two operations would be needed but instead you need to do a whole list of operations to edit things. They also need to get rid of very weird limitations. Like why the hell can we not have a simple on/off trigger state for a pad with an infinitely looped sample? This very feature is already implemented in the sample edit screen. It'd be extremely useful for live performances. Why can't we have an option in the sample edit screen to quickly offline apply any of the included insert/send effects? Yes we have resampling of a pad but yet again it's extra steps to do a very simple thing. Why isn't there any consistency in how the Q controls work in different pages? Why aren't they being used in places where they would greatly benefit? Like for instance scrolling through sample content in a similar way you scroll through a sample timeline. First knob for coarse adjustments, second for slightly slower operation and the final two for fine tuning.. this would make it extremely quick and easy to scroll through directories with hundreds of samples. Granted, the touch screen works quite well in this case too but how the sensitivity is setup is not optimal in my opinion.

It's also a shame how much potential yet how limited the synthesis part of the sampling playback is. There are some great and very interesting filters.. yet the modulation options for said filters are stupidly simplistic. The potential for greatness is palpable.

Anyhow, yeah perhaps I am giving the MPC too much flak but it really is one of the most disappointing hardware purchases I have ever made, mostly due to how much potential there is for improvement and how slowly it has evolved. This seems to be ramping up though. Akai have done quite a good job on updating it lately.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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bmanic wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:38 am ..because I do like the portability and the ability to carry an actual sampler/drum machine in my backpack and play it anywhere I want in the world..
I am just interested in it because I like the idea of using something on a commute that doesn't require to connect to a laptop. Looked as some online stuff about it. It's not a small device. You must have a big backpack. Everything I am seeing is it seems it a great device for hip-hop beat makers. Not entirely sure its for me for the type of stuff i do. I use a lot of arcane attic and rising crescent expansions in what i do. i guess i'll have to check it out in a store in person to see for myself.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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telecode wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:48 am
bmanic wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:38 am ..because I do like the portability and the ability to carry an actual sampler/drum machine in my backpack and play it anywhere I want in the world..
I am just interested in it because I like the idea of using something on a commute that doesn't require to connect to a laptop. Looked as some online stuff about it. It's not a small device. You must have a big backpack. Everything I am seeing is it seems it a great device for hip-hop beat makers. Not entirely sure its for me for the type of stuff i do. I use a lot of arcane attic and rising crescent expansions in what i do. i guess i'll have to check it out in a store in person to see for myself.
The MPC and Hip-Hop have always been closely linked, but ultimately it plays samples of instruments or drums or plays clips (like Live) so you can make whatever music you like. Its pattern based, but unlike Maschine also has linear tracks like a DAW.

Perhaps the title should have been Maschine, AKAI or 'OP-Z'.... I would reccomend the OP-Z for commute/flights etc - fits in your pocked. very powerful Elektron style sequencer, sample playback and synth engines...lots of fun and can alos control hardware back in the studio....worth a look! Its about £500 and I use mine a lot, it is so small it fits inside a suit inside pocket- you can use an iPhone/iPad as a screen, but I never do, its realy easy to get around witout a screen...definitely worth considering - battery life is about 6 hours.

https://www.teenageengineering.com/products/op-z
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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telecode wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:48 am
bmanic wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:38 am ..because I do like the portability and the ability to carry an actual sampler/drum machine in my backpack and play it anywhere I want in the world..
I am just interested in it because I like the idea of using something on a commute that doesn't require to connect to a laptop. Looked as some online stuff about it. It's not a small device. You must have a big backpack. Everything I am seeing is it seems it a great device for hip-hop beat makers. Not entirely sure its for me for the type of stuff i do. I use a lot of arcane attic and rising crescent expansions in what i do. i guess i'll have to check it out in a store in person to see for myself.
For commute music making there's nothing better than an iPad. Just get one of those and buy some decent music making software. A basic iPad + a bunch of software is much cheaper than an MPC Live and a lot more capable. The only thing missing is physical controls.. even that you can remedy by getting some small midi pad controller to go with it.
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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An iPad will work for some people, it didn't work for me (tried Cubasis and Gadget, still do occasionally)
I now have a MS Surface running BWS so I can use my VST collection when I travel, was spending too much on iPad Apps!!

I think many people (myself included) just want to get away from the 'screen' and 'GUI's' and like to hold/learn a hardware with all of its limitations! - iPad, Computer, MS Surface - its all virtual over real/immediate but limited! Hardware/Software argument....

Try everything- do what makes you happy :party:
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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I actually am on the iOS/iPad platform and have been for a few years now. The apps are amazing, they are cheap compared to OS X and x64 software, and it's friggin amazing what one can do with a tablet -- but the truth is, it does not work that well as a cross platform tool -- meaning, easily work on stuff on the go on mobile setup, come home, stick it into the studio and keep working where you left off. Moving the stuff to and from the tablet is always a bitch and a half and always requires tinkering and tweaking.

I do think working sole on the iPad/iOS platform, you can get a lot of stuff done -- especially if you work in electronic music and don't use much other than midi keyboard. I am not sure it's quote as flexible as a laptop/DAW setup, but its far from a toy. Korg and Steinberg have done the most amazing stuff so far on iOS. NI screwed the duck with iMachine. It's a toy and left to fall behind. SugarBytes also did some amazing stuff. I haven't tried anything Propellerhead did on iOS yes.
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Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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Just to muddy the waters a little more, Presonus Atom with Studio One Pro. A drum controller with tight DAW integration. But if you're already set with your DAW probably skip this option.

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telecode wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:04 pm I actually am on the iOS/iPad platform and have been for a few years now. The apps are amazing, they are cheap compared to OS X and x64 software, and it's friggin amazing what one can do with a tablet -- but the truth is, it does not work that well as a cross platform tool -- meaning, easily work on stuff on the go on mobile setup, come home, stick it into the studio and keep working where you left off. Moving the stuff to and from the tablet is always a bitch and a half and always requires tinkering and tweaking.

I do think working sole on the iPad/iOS platform, you can get a lot of stuff done -- especially if you work in electronic music and don't use much other than midi keyboard. I am not sure it's quote as flexible as a laptop/DAW setup, but its far from a toy. Korg and Steinberg have done the most amazing stuff so far on iOS. NI screwed the duck with iMachine. It's a toy and left to fall behind. SugarBytes also did some amazing stuff. I haven't tried anything Propellerhead did on iOS yes.
That’s pretty much why I switched from an iPad to a MS Surface....I can run my full DAW and all my VST instruments and fx....and I don’t have to buy anything new....
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:57 pm
telecode wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:04 pm I actually am on the iOS/iPad platform and have been for a few years now. The apps are amazing, they are cheap compared to OS X and x64 software, and it's friggin amazing what one can do with a tablet -- but the truth is, it does not work that well as a cross platform tool -- meaning, easily work on stuff on the go on mobile setup, come home, stick it into the studio and keep working where you left off. Moving the stuff to and from the tablet is always a bitch and a half and always requires tinkering and tweaking.

I do think working sole on the iPad/iOS platform, you can get a lot of stuff done -- especially if you work in electronic music and don't use much other than midi keyboard. I am not sure it's quote as flexible as a laptop/DAW setup, but its far from a toy. Korg and Steinberg have done the most amazing stuff so far on iOS. NI screwed the duck with iMachine. It's a toy and left to fall behind. SugarBytes also did some amazing stuff. I haven't tried anything Propellerhead did on iOS yes.
That’s pretty much why I switched from an iPad to a MS Surface....I can run my full DAW and all my VST instruments and fx....and I don’t have to buy anything new....
I see. So you are basically using full desktop edition of Maschine and a DAW on MS surface.
🌐 Spotify 🔵 Soundcloud 🌀 Soundclick

Gear & Setup: Windows 10, Dual Xeon, 32GB RAM, Cubase 10.5/9.5, NI Komplete Audio 6, NI Maschine, NI Jam, NI Kontakt

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