Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 am

fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:29 am

Don't remember what was the price, but are probably quoting the price from 7 to 8, NOT from 7.5 to 8.

Upgrade prices have been like this:

From x.0 to x.5 - 49 €

From x.5 to the next x.0 - 99 €

And a new baseline Mac mini is far from capable... Come on... :roll:
It ain't shabby to be honest, performs close to 2017 15" MacBook Pros...

So i overshot the sum for 10%.
Still, the point I made is pretty clear and not as much of a hyperbole. Cost of running Cubase up to date for the same period of running logic up to date is much much higher.

I think Steinberg is overpricing it's point upgrades for what they are.
jonljacobi wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:22 am
I haven't really seen Final Cut, so I can't comment. But one of the fantastic things about Bitwig is that it can be resized for any display. I'm okay with LPX but I have to run macOS at a lower resolution to be comfortable with it. Ableton also resizes, with the exception of the settings dialog. They don't seem to care about that no matter how many times you point it out.
Logic GUI is a mess. It doesn't support dark mode (even the dialogues) it's completely out of design with the rest of Apple system and half of plugins are still from 1999, GUI and all.

(since i was talking about cubase earlier, cubase is not much better)

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fmr
KVRAF
8811 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 am
fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:29 am
And a new baseline Mac mini is far from capable... Come on... :roll:
It ain't shabby to be honest, performs close to 2017 15" MacBook Pros...
Yeah... I bet it performs better than a Core 2 Duo :lol:
Ploki wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:39 am
So i overshot the sum for 10%.
No, you overshot it by like 30% more.
Fernando (FMR)

Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:10 am

fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 am

Yeah... I bet it performs better than a Core 2 Duo :lol:

No, you overshot it by like 30% more.
WHat are you talking about?
2017 15" macbook pro is a quad-core i7? it's a pretty capable computer for audio.
2018 Mac Mini i3 benches almost as much.

Okay let's do it again then, assuming your prices.
7.5: 599€
8: 149€ (that I know)
8.5: 49€
9: 99€
9.5: 49€
10: 99€
sum---
1044€
that's roughly 9% difference from 1145 which was my first estimate.

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4113 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:31 am

This is a really substantial, relevant and important discussion!
Every other second I click the refresh button to follow this argument breathlessly... :lol:
Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

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fmr
KVRAF
8811 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:10 am
fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:34 am

Yeah... I bet it performs better than a Core 2 Duo :lol:

No, you overshot it by like 30% more.
WHat are you talking about?
2017 15" macbook pro is a quad-core i7? it's a pretty capable computer for audio.
2018 Mac Mini i3 benches almost as much.
Have you heard of a thing called sarcasm? :roll:

ANY MacBook is sub-spec'd, so comparing to them is absurd. But whatever.
Ploki wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:10 am
Okay let's do it again then, assuming your prices.
7.5: 599€
8: 149€ (that I know)
8.5: 49€
9: 99€
9.5: 49€
10: 99€
sum---
1044€
that's roughly 9% difference from 1145 which was my first estimate.
OK, so now its not just upgrading Cubase Pro (which was what you wrote in your first post), you are talking of buying it new and upgrading it?

For what it matters, the price from 7.5 to 8 was 99, not 149, AFAIK. 149 would have been IF upgrading from 7 to 8, NOT 7.5. So, your sum would have been 994. And this was from buying Cubase new, NOT updating it. Considering you already had Cubase, the upgrades would sum up to 395, from 7.5 to 10.
Fernando (FMR)

Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:44 am

fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 am

For what it matters, the price from 7.5 to 8 was 99, not 149, AFAIK. 149 would have been IF upgrading from 7 to 8, NOT 7.5. So, your sum would have been 994. And this was from buying Cubase new, NOT updating it. Considering you already had Cubase, the upgrades would sum up to 395, from 7.5 to 10.
True.
I forgot what the point was

edit:
oh yeah, that cubase upgrades are expensive.
which they are :D
395€ is still 395€ more than 0€, even ignoring the significantly smaller initial investment
fmr wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:37 am

Have you heard of a thing called sarcasm? :roll:

ANY MacBook is sub-spec'd, so comparing to them is absurd. But whatever.

no i havent

also, why is any macbook sub-speced? People were working natively on pretty crappier CPUs than the current 6-core offerings of the MacBooks. People still work natively on the old Mac towers which are less powerful CPU-wise

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:52 am

I payed just €179 for Logic Pro X when i bought it and i cannot complain about the price.
While i also think they should iron out some bugs and i miss a few things which are more easy in other DAWs and some instruments could use a GUI update as well, it is still the biggest bang for buck in terms of money i ever bought. I got my macbook pro also for a very good price when i bought it and a decent windows machine had not been much cheaper at this time.
I also disagree with some posts about the included instruments. I even think Logic comes with some of the most outstanding tools inside a DAW and even beats all third party solutions in some areas. But that is a personal preference and makes no sense to discuss further of course.
As long as i use a mac i always will choose Logic as my DAW. Also after years of learning it, i really do not want to start with a new DAW. Maybe one day if Apple lost interest totally in pro music apps...but we will see if Logic Pro 10.5. will bring some more amazing things for free.
I do not think they will make Logic Pro XI anytime soon, which is a good thing for owners of previous versions since i guess we get more free updates until really version 11 comes one day.
What i also like is that you are not limited to a few licenses to use. If you have 5 devices bound to your account, you can use 5 licenses of Logic. A thing i like in general about the mac app store and iOS app store compared to the limited license usage we got normally in the desktop world.

Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am

Cinebient wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:52 am
While i also think they should iron out some bugs and i miss a few things which are more easy in other DAWs and some instruments could use a GUI update as well, it is still the biggest bang for buck in terms of money i ever bought.
Just curious, what do you think is missing from logic feature-wise?
(I personally only really want DP-style chunks more than anything)

I agree about App store to a degree, but not being able to transfer licenses is problematic (and possibly against the law in EU)

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am
Cinebient wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:52 am
While i also think they should iron out some bugs and i miss a few things which are more easy in other DAWs and some instruments could use a GUI update as well, it is still the biggest bang for buck in terms of money i ever bought.
Just curious, what do you think is missing from logic feature-wise?
(I personally only really want DP-style chunks more than anything)

I agree about App store to a degree, but not being able to transfer licenses is problematic (and possibly against the law in EU)
Yes, it is all a pro and contra. While i do not really need more than 2 licenses anyway sometimes it could be handy to have 3, 4 or more available. So if you need more than using 2 licenses at the same time for some reason you have to buy another full license.
With mac app store tools and all iOS apps (which are there some fantastic tools for audio production) you are not limited i think. So if you have 10 devices you might use 10 licenses (but i remember you can set 5 devices to one account, not sure, so it might be limited to 5 at the end).
And you are right. The dark side is mainly no demos (but some apps seems to offer it and you can unlock the full engine then via IAP) and no resell. If that would be the case it would be the better option for me. So far i see benefits on both.
What i miss in Logic? F.e. in general Apple could let us use midi out for AUs (but it seems AUv3 can do this, but it seems only used in iOS so far mainly).
I would like to have no limitation on number of slots inside the midi and FX channel.
While things are maybe possible already i would like some new workflow like having different options to set parallel and serial chains for FX direct in the insert channel strip.
Something like Bitwig modulation offers would be great on top too.
There are a few more specific things like i would really love to have the clip performance view like they did in GarageBand iOS for the apple loops. It works really good. In general i much prefer a timeline sequencer but i really like how easy it is in GarageBand iOS to get some grooves started.
Of course in the future i would like to see Logic ported to iOS in a good way to use for multi-touch and/or i would like to see more innovations in terms of future hardware and software integration. F.e. instead of having to use a remote control app i would like to have a full multi-touch-3D touch screen inside the large trackpads they have now and could use the (really good) GarageBand multi-touch smart instruments. For some things they just working even much better than my Seaboard Rise. As MPE controller for midi out it would be great to have without the need to use my iPhone or iPad.
Of course that is all wishful thinking but while i hear from many people how much Apple do not care about creative musicians anymore i wonder if there is even any other company (which sells computers) which cares a fraction about these things as Apple still do and might for the coming years. Alone to have core audio on a desktop, notebook, tablet and smartphone is a good thing for me.

Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:55 am

Valid.

Not sure what you mean about Seaboard Rise? (I have one too)

I don't think apple doesn't care about creative musicians. Not any more/less than they ever did frankly.

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15955 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:03 am

Cinebient wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 am
What i miss in Logic? F.e. in general Apple could let us use midi out for AUs (but it seems AUv3 can do this, but it seems only used in iOS so far mainly).
I would like to have no limitation on number of slots inside the midi and FX channel.
While things are maybe possible already i would like some new workflow like having different options to set parallel and serial chains for FX direct in the insert channel strip.
Something like Bitwig modulation offers would be great on top too.
There are a few more specific things like i would really love to have the clip performance view like they did in GarageBand iOS for the apple loops. It works really good. In general i much prefer a timeline sequencer but i really like how easy it is in GarageBand iOS to get some grooves started.
I would really like to be able to select a specific controller per track. It is a frustrating limitation not to be able to use 2 controllers each on its own track at the same time.

And yeah... even some simple modulation would be great. I mean that does not depend on midi learn like the current LFO.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4220 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:03 am
Cinebient wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:12 am
What i miss in Logic? F.e. in general Apple could let us use midi out for AUs (but it seems AUv3 can do this, but it seems only used in iOS so far mainly).
I would like to have no limitation on number of slots inside the midi and FX channel.
While things are maybe possible already i would like some new workflow like having different options to set parallel and serial chains for FX direct in the insert channel strip.
Something like Bitwig modulation offers would be great on top too.
There are a few more specific things like i would really love to have the clip performance view like they did in GarageBand iOS for the apple loops. It works really good. In general i much prefer a timeline sequencer but i really like how easy it is in GarageBand iOS to get some grooves started.
I would really like to be able to select a specific controller per track. It is a frustrating limitation not to be able to use 2 controllers each on its own track at the same time.

And yeah... even some simple modulation would be great. I mean that does not depend on midi learn like the current LFO.
Is there not at least a workaround via the Logic environment? Not sure. But yes, it would be great in a more easy way of course.
But i really like to use the midi FX modulator for modulating any automation parameter, so no midi learn needed for any automation parameter. So you even can automate things, you cannot do via midi learn or inside the synth/instrument/FX itself.
At the end i really like Logic and i hope we will see again at the end of this month a major update to v.10.5.
The value of the current version is really great for me. Some tools would be alone worth the price of Logic and others are really as good as the best third party tools for me personally. F.e. Alchemy, Sculpture, ChromaVerb, StepFX, PhatFX, Space Designer, Delay Designer.
I mean in general when i think i payed "just" €179 for it some years ago and even for the current €229 i think it is a super value (if you really use a lot of the content and if you anyway are using a mac).

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martinjuenke
KVRAF
4113 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:43 am

I like Logic Pro as well and can cover all my music production needs with it (plus some help from NI, U-HE, iZotope...) All this bashing of Apple amuses me. I know what I have with it and I‘ve never regret going that way. Just my 2c...
Flowing atmospheric music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com/music

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pdxindy
KVRAF
15955 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:53 am

Cinebient wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 am

Is there not at least a workaround via the Logic environment? Not sure. But yes, it would be great in a more easy way of course.
Yes... but anything that needs the Logic environment I will not be using... way too complicated and left brained.

Ploki
KVRian
808 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Logic Pro 11 will be releasing later this year ? ?, are we expecting any major upgrades 10.5 ?

Post Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 pm

martinjuenke wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:43 am
I like Logic Pro as well and can cover all my music production needs with it (plus some help from NI, U-HE, iZotope...) All this bashing of Apple amuses me. I know what I have with it and I‘ve never regret going that way. Just my 2c...
I have Cubase and ProTools as well and can't see the appeal in them frankly. :)
I even do postproduction (albeit smaller) gigs in Logic Pro X. (mostly because I don't have PT HD for 2K€ which you need for surround support)

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