UVI Plate

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cjwseven7 wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:20 pm
In any case, it’s cool to see such a lively discussion about PA1. I’d be curious to get opinions about PA3 “Derailer,” which is the one I was directly involved with.
If only you made your products cross platform - I would love to test them and comment - I'd probably get your plate reverb as well, but .....
Last edited by woggle on Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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I have just been trying UVI Plate and PA1 and they sound absolutely nothing alike to be honest. To be honest, I prefer UVI by a long stretch.

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cjwseven7 wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:20 pm Hi folks,
[snip]
In any case, it’s cool to see such a lively discussion about PA1. I’d be curious to get opinions about PA3 “Derailer,” which is the one I was directly involved with.
Stefan
I tried the beta demo of PA3 when you were working on it. It was... ok. Not the easiest thing to use in the world to get usable musical sounds. Then the demo when it came out. Ok... the price was way too high for what it does however, for me to justify anyway.

Your reverb was not copied in any significant way by UVI. If anything they took your idea and innovated it with a much more comprehensive UI and better visualization. Unsure of the sound because I didn't compare them. That's the nature of software products. Get patents and the associated bank balances if you really want to protect your work. Part of the world of software audio products is to build on existing and make things better, moving everything forward. :phones:

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Hi, this is Rémy from UVI.

First of all, let me state here clearly how much admiration and respect I have for all the people who contributed to the acoustic of plates from both the academia: Michael Edgeworth McIntyre, Jim Woodhouse, Arthur Leissa, Antoine Chaigne, Stefan Bilbao, Kevin Arcas, A. Cummings, Cyril Touzé, Michele Ducceschi, Craig Webb... and from the audio industry: UAD, SoundToys, Eventide, Lexicon, Valhalla, Waves, PSP, ... etc

Specifically, Michele and Stefan, we started this project before we first met in Edinburgh last year.
We are not here to steal anyone's ideas. But not using a good idea when we see one isn't an option. And I think that you can understand that stopping our project wasn't possible for me either.
I read everything I could on the topic to know the state of the art, including your work of course.
We also did our own measurements of the EMT140 and EMT240, our own adaptive multithreaded multicore SIMD modal reverberator engine to go up to 20k modes, our own physical model calibration, our own UX and product design, we added modulation, a significant decay editor, a different mode pruning algorithm... etc. So I don't feel it's fair to describe our product as a ripoff or copycat of yours (I can understand that you feel it that way and I sincerely regret it).

I wish I had the right to talk to you openly about this at the time we met, rather than having to handle this now through KvR forums, and I wish we will have the opportunity to talk about all this in person in the future.

P.S.: To all KvR people who don't know the great work of the Acoustics and Audio Group in Edinburgh yet, please have a look at the sounds and videos they did for the NESS project
http://www.ness.music.ed.ac.uk

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mdsp wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:16 am Hi, this is Rémy from UVI.

First of all, let me state here clearly how much admiration and respect I have for all the people who contributed to the acoustic of plates from both the academia: Michael Edgeworth McIntyre, Jim Woodhouse, Arthur Leissa, Antoine Chaigne, Stefan Bilbao, Kevin Arcas, A. Cummings, Cyril Touzé, Michele Ducceschi, Craig Webb... and from the audio industry: UAD, SoundToys, Eventide, Lexicon, Valhalla, Waves, PSP, ... etc

Specifically, Michele and Stefan, we started this project before we first met in Edinburgh last year.
We are not here to steal anyone's ideas. But not using a good idea when we see one isn't an option. And I think that you can understand that stopping our project wasn't possible for me either.
I read everything I could on the topic to know the state of the art, including your work of course.
We also did our own measurements of the EMT140 and EMT240, our own adaptive multithreaded multicore SIMD modal reverberator engine to go up to 20k modes, our own physical model calibration, our own UX and product design, we added modulation, a significant decay editor, a different mode pruning algorithm... etc. So I don't feel it's fair to describe our product as a ripoff or copycat of yours (I can understand that you feel it that way and I sincerely regret it).

I wish I had the right to talk to you openly about this at the time we met, rather than having to handle this now through KvR forums, and I wish we will have the opportunity to talk about all this in person in the future.

P.S.: To all KvR people who don't know the great work of the Acoustics and Audio Group in Edinburgh yet, please have a look at the sounds and videos they did for the NESS project
http://www.ness.music.ed.ac.uk

very pleased (and not surprised) to hear this Rémy - I have quite a few UVI products and have always found UVI very decent and customer centred. Looks like Plate is another purchase from me :)

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plexuss wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:53 pm
jens wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:40 pm [snip+crying...]A less popular developer than UVI would have been getting completely roasted for this blatant kind of rip-off, which gets touted as innovation here. [snip+more crying...]
Yeah... ok. If that's your opinion and your giant beef. Go for it. :phones:
I also see no relation to PA1 reverb... Setting the decay of reverb for each band individually is a very old idea. The UVI plate is nicely streamlined designed regarding UX and provides the most common features you would like to have in such a type of reverb. And obviously it raises the bar when it comes to precision. I bought it, because it reminds me of those Logic's reverbs, that I miss in other DAWs.

Maybe also check this reverb, I find the approach very attracting and lush sounding:
https://www.audiority.com/shop/grainspace/

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It is a wonderful reverb - I spent quite a bit of time playing around with it today exploring the spatial location capabilities - left/right, near / far and it really is worth getting.

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Solid product here, purchased it and loving the sound. Simple to use and great options, loving infinite

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@cjwseven7
Would be great if you can void dissing us on french AudioFanzine without stating who you clearly are.
mdpa nickname looks very much like Michele DUCCESCHI Physical Audio especially when the account only talk on subject regarding PA.

https://fr.audiofanzine.com/reverb-algo ... 76452.html

So long for the high road...

Thanks !
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

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i think they are just trying to advertise their product for free or something.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali

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If it wasn't for the same five materials being presented in the same order nobody would probably have homed in on this and instead the relative merits of the plugins would be discussed solely in terms of their technical and acoustic accomplishments.

Perhaps we could do that instead?

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otristan wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:24 am @cjwseven7
Would be great if you can void dissing us on french AudioFanzine without stating who you clearly are.
mdpa nickname looks very much like Michele DUCCESCHI Physical Audio especially when the account only talk on subject regarding PA.

https://fr.audiofanzine.com/reverb-algo ... 76452.html

So long for the high road...

Thanks !
No dissing there, just a link to this thread, and to PA1 (relevant for the discussion on that thread). No offensive or abusive language whatsoever ... Also, no attempt at hiding my identity. Probably best to get in touch privately if you want to take this any further. No point keep doing that on this thread. Michele

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v1o wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:27 pm
liquidsonics wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:38 pm I was surprised to find so much information on PA's plate implementation published freely by the developers themselves in a paper available online, a very generous contribution to the art I felt at the time.
Considering that the founders of PA1 are academics and published much of the publicly available research work in implementing this particular type of Plate reverb implementation. It is not surprising at all that other companies would look at those papers and implement similar ideas into their DSP for use in commercial plugins. In the past people would copy from classic Lexicon/Eventide etc reverbs, that included copying everything from the interface to the ranges of the controls. In fact the whole reverb plugin market is based on this.
It seems such a shame that PA are now devaluing that contribution by attacking products which leverage that work, especially on such an odd basis as the UI (which look no more alike than any other two reverb plugins, as plexus's screengrabs demonstrates.)

At the end of the day, the significant part of a modelled plate plugin is the modelling itself. If the UVI plate were a blatant ripoff of that, then it'd be reasonable to call that into question. Except in this case, Bilbao etc are known for their published research work in this area; the expectation that someone would leverage that research can hardly be surprising, nor would it be a ripoff.

The focus on the UI, of all things, (especially when the UVI plugin seems to have far more 'atypical-to-plugins' control over the algorithm than the PA plugin does), seems... odd. I cant help feeling that there's more to 'it' (the beef with UVI) than being concerned that there's some controls in common.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:58 pm Well, unfortunately you both fail on the demo front: UVI's demo seems to crash Logic projects that include it, upon reloading. And you seem to think that inserting 6 seconds silence regularly is conducive to prospective sales :scared:

Wallet = Safe! :tu:
Erm, have the same bug in the full version of UVI plate, this can happen upon initial release. Crashes on release here, macos 10.13, vst. Already send report to customersupport. Pretty sure it will be fixed, soon.

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jens wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:36 pmUVI Plate is just super super similar to PA1. The architecture, the parameter names, how the GUI is laid out - they almost look like twins separated at birth.
You need your eyes tested, they're feeding you complete bullshit.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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