In Session Audio Fluid Series and Riff Generation
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
I'm taking a look at Fluid Harmonics, Fluid Strike, and Riff Generation during the sale.
Triple Play engine seems interesting, although all of their Kontakt libraries appear to be primarily for Kontakt Player, so sample tweaking/replacing may be difficult (if possible).
Any actual user opinions for these? Not seeing much buzz about them on the internet.
FLUID HARMONICS
40% OFF: $119.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/fluid-harmonics/
FLUID STRIKE: TUNED PERCUSSION
50% OFF: $124.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/flu ... ercussion/
RIFF GENERATION
40% OFF: $149.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/riff-generation/
END OF SUMMER SALE: THROUGH SUNDAY, OCT 1
Triple Play engine seems interesting, although all of their Kontakt libraries appear to be primarily for Kontakt Player, so sample tweaking/replacing may be difficult (if possible).
Any actual user opinions for these? Not seeing much buzz about them on the internet.
FLUID HARMONICS
40% OFF: $119.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/fluid-harmonics/
FLUID STRIKE: TUNED PERCUSSION
50% OFF: $124.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/flu ... ercussion/
RIFF GENERATION
40% OFF: $149.98
https://insessionaudio.com/products/riff-generation/
END OF SUMMER SALE: THROUGH SUNDAY, OCT 1
Last edited by Musical Gym on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1684 posts since 29 Sep, 2013
I'b be surprise that one could use his own samples.
That said, if you'r using VST's version of kontakt and you'r set-up/daw allows for it, you may use the KSP generated function to send sq to another sound module.
Have no idea how the Triple Play will end up though.
Looks a bit cumbersome.
That said, if you'r using VST's version of kontakt and you'r set-up/daw allows for it, you may use the KSP generated function to send sq to another sound module.
Have no idea how the Triple Play will end up though.
Looks a bit cumbersome.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Thanks, I think I can set up a multi of three instances with only one layer in each instance to generate the three polyrhythms to outside world/vsts and use the functionality that way. But I can already do that with Aurora, so I'm not sure what I'd gain. I like the copy/paste patterns between sequencers, though. The harmonics of FH tend to sound samey without too much variation beyond just harmonics for the most part. Strike gives you a good selection of tonal percussion unless you have those bases covered already.
In my opinion, the sale prices of these would make for reasonable regular prices.
In my opinion, the sale prices of these would make for reasonable regular prices.
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- KVRAF
- 1684 posts since 29 Sep, 2013
Those ones kept my attention too when released.
In Session Audio creates pretty high quality/cleaver Kontakt instruments.
I'll say that I'v had pretty much the same impression you were describing in your post though...
I also sometimes use e.g. drums sequencer to generate melodic pattern.
Euclidean ones like Soniccouture's Konkrete or Box Of Tricks are pretty amazing in that regard.
But, yeah, not quite convenient as self contained solutions like FLUID HARMONICS and FLUID STRIKE: TUNED PERCUSSION.
In Session Audio creates pretty high quality/cleaver Kontakt instruments.
I'll say that I'v had pretty much the same impression you were describing in your post though...
That said, re: arpegiator, Reaktor has some, let's say, quite exotic ones that once combined with whatever instruments you already have could lead to pretty interesting results.Musical Gym wrote:...The harmonics of FH tend to sound samey without too much variation beyond just harmonics for the most part. Strike gives you a good selection of tonal percussion unless you have those bases covered already.
I also sometimes use e.g. drums sequencer to generate melodic pattern.
Euclidean ones like Soniccouture's Konkrete or Box Of Tricks are pretty amazing in that regard.
But, yeah, not quite convenient as self contained solutions like FLUID HARMONICS and FLUID STRIKE: TUNED PERCUSSION.
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- KVRAF
- 1562 posts since 13 Jan, 2014
I have bought the riff generation in this sale, so its not actually the one your looking for but its absolutely great.
I think the engine is the most develloped and flexible one cause the two you mentioned are older. I dont know how it is with use of own samples but right now after about one week I have not even come to explore the INCLUDED ones , only let the riff generator generate and generate and....
Then using sounds I know for the generated riff for getting a better impression of what it is capable and its really amazing. I use the included drag and drop for the midi and rendering midi within waveform.
Only little border I have come so far is that you cant follow a chord progression with the riff (only takes first note to adapt to scale/root note) when its getting longer then the chord you have but what it generates in these borders is the best I have seen so far. And as I said: I have not even come to try with the included sounds....So far while only trying out the riffs I would say they are kind of "specific", very good sounding but NOT bread and butter (like the fluid harmonics), so of course it would make sense (if you need it) to import own sounds. I am very fine with the midi export and using my own sounds in other vst/kontakt libs.
I think the engine is the most develloped and flexible one cause the two you mentioned are older. I dont know how it is with use of own samples but right now after about one week I have not even come to explore the INCLUDED ones , only let the riff generator generate and generate and....
Then using sounds I know for the generated riff for getting a better impression of what it is capable and its really amazing. I use the included drag and drop for the midi and rendering midi within waveform.
Only little border I have come so far is that you cant follow a chord progression with the riff (only takes first note to adapt to scale/root note) when its getting longer then the chord you have but what it generates in these borders is the best I have seen so far. And as I said: I have not even come to try with the included sounds....So far while only trying out the riffs I would say they are kind of "specific", very good sounding but NOT bread and butter (like the fluid harmonics), so of course it would make sense (if you need it) to import own sounds. I am very fine with the midi export and using my own sounds in other vst/kontakt libs.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Sometimes I forget about Reaktor when looking at Kontakt libs. I have a lot of ensembles, some commercial and some community, that can run circles around Kontakt in many ways. Box of Tricks with Jammer and in tandem with other tools is good. Will keep in mind the drum machine idea for melody. I was looking at Riff Generation but couldn't get past the fact that you can't do polyphony or chords with it, plus scales are limited. I ran it by a developer friend who wasn't that impressed. Changing sound source per step is nice. Do you have a solution for no chords/poly with RG? Can you adjust adsr of each sound and other characteristics of each sound?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Anyone else using Riff Generation care to comment on it?
- KVRAF
- 23103 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
ITT, I scripted Fluid and Riff Generation, AMA.
Despite being Kontakt Player libraries, you can actually replace samples if you want, instrument edit mode is not locked. But you gotta be careful in doing so - there are no guarantees and you do this at your discretion
When locking to scale, no matter which root note you play, the riff will use only the notes that are legitimate in the scale and key that is selected, so no out-of-scale keys (and this is displayed on the virtual keyboard: blue are the legitimate keys, purple are the out of scale keys, scale root is cyan, your current playing key is green). You have a variety of options on what to do with notes that are out of scale - either play nothing, or just play the root (=the out of scale note in this case), or root and octaves (basically just the steps that have 0, 12, -12 for pitch). The "Pattern plays verbatim" modes are your usual dumb sequence transposition from the years of yore. So, it just adds an offset to the pitches played, so out of scale notes are possible. If you used C major, playing G# will play G# major, provided you set the scale to chromatic - then you have exactly the same behaviour as on most sequencers out there (plain transposition).
You can automate these parameters in order to make RG follow your chord progression (yes, you can automate the scale as well, it's a combined dropdown menu + slider thing, and all these parameters are already assigned for you to automate in your host.
Despite being Kontakt Player libraries, you can actually replace samples if you want, instrument edit mode is not locked. But you gotta be careful in doing so - there are no guarantees and you do this at your discretion
You can't quite do chords, but you can have an interval at least. Basically there is sound A and there's sounds B-D, and the two can overlap, and you can detune (change pitch) or transpose (change MIDI note) each separately in this overlap mode (toggle Sub A button). The main idea was that guitar riffs are most often consisted of a root note and a power chord. So this would be like a synth guitar of sorts. You have your index finger and your pinky - do stuff with them! Countless songs were made just using those twoMusical Gym wrote:I was looking at Riff Generation but couldn't get past the fact that you can't do polyphony or chords with it, plus scales are limited.
You can tweak volume, pan, tuning, startpoint and ADSR for sound A and separately for sounds B-E (all of them in tandem, not separately). We made it this way to keep it simple.Musical Gym wrote:Can you adjust adsr of each sound and other characteristics of each sound?
Might I divert your attention to the Mode, Key and Scale knobs, which you should be able to use to great effect to make your riff follow the chord progression you have.tatanka wrote:Only little border I have come so far is that you cant follow a chord progression with the riff (only takes first note to adapt to scale/root note) when its getting longer then the chord you have but what it generates in these borders is the best I have seen so far.
When locking to scale, no matter which root note you play, the riff will use only the notes that are legitimate in the scale and key that is selected, so no out-of-scale keys (and this is displayed on the virtual keyboard: blue are the legitimate keys, purple are the out of scale keys, scale root is cyan, your current playing key is green). You have a variety of options on what to do with notes that are out of scale - either play nothing, or just play the root (=the out of scale note in this case), or root and octaves (basically just the steps that have 0, 12, -12 for pitch). The "Pattern plays verbatim" modes are your usual dumb sequence transposition from the years of yore. So, it just adds an offset to the pitches played, so out of scale notes are possible. If you used C major, playing G# will play G# major, provided you set the scale to chromatic - then you have exactly the same behaviour as on most sequencers out there (plain transposition).
You can automate these parameters in order to make RG follow your chord progression (yes, you can automate the scale as well, it's a combined dropdown menu + slider thing, and all these parameters are already assigned for you to automate in your host.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Many thanks for your detailed reply (information and tips) Mario! It helps a lot.
Due to fairly strict budget, if I pick up RG, then I probably won't' be able to get Fluid Harmonics or Strike since I also had my eye on Arpology. If you have any thoughts, let me know in PM if you prefer. Thanks again.
Due to fairly strict budget, if I pick up RG, then I probably won't' be able to get Fluid Harmonics or Strike since I also had my eye on Arpology. If you have any thoughts, let me know in PM if you prefer. Thanks again.
- KVRAF
- 23103 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
If you really need polyphony, it would make sense to go with the Fluid stuff. It's basically a triple arpeggiator with some additional bells and whistles. Good thing is that you don't have to have all three arps going on at once, they are switchable per layer, and also each arp doesn't have to always influence pitch, they can modulate volume, pan, tune or cutoff.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
thanks
I still like the idea of being able to have a different sound source per step. If I can manage to load my own samples into A through E, that would be amazing.
I still like the idea of being able to have a different sound source per step. If I can manage to load my own samples into A through E, that would be amazing.
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- KVRAF
- 1562 posts since 13 Jan, 2014
Hi Evil Dragon,
cant let go the opportunity to ask this to the develloper after already annoying Kyle with this
My (only) problem with Riff Generation so far:
- I have already a track with a chord progression of lets say 8 bars/4beats and 8 chords, chords change on evry bar
- Now as long as my riff in Riff Generation is 4 beats/one bar long evrything is fine. I can choose the scale and root note and it will take the incoming FIRST note to transpose the riff correctly
- Now my problem: if I generate a riff LONGER then my chord, lets say over 12 beats/3bars the riff wont fit to the chords on the other tracks and this should lead to some disharmonic between scale notes and changing chord notes I would suspect
- of course the strongness of Riff Generation lies on the generation of longer, evolving riffs
Any advice/tips on this appart from using the ear and decide how much disharmonic is acceptable ?
Would be really great to get some advice on this, it is really a great tool, dont need much else to make a song. And as I said before: I have not even reached the possibilities of the sound scaping right now
cant let go the opportunity to ask this to the develloper after already annoying Kyle with this
My (only) problem with Riff Generation so far:
- I have already a track with a chord progression of lets say 8 bars/4beats and 8 chords, chords change on evry bar
- Now as long as my riff in Riff Generation is 4 beats/one bar long evrything is fine. I can choose the scale and root note and it will take the incoming FIRST note to transpose the riff correctly
- Now my problem: if I generate a riff LONGER then my chord, lets say over 12 beats/3bars the riff wont fit to the chords on the other tracks and this should lead to some disharmonic between scale notes and changing chord notes I would suspect
- of course the strongness of Riff Generation lies on the generation of longer, evolving riffs
Any advice/tips on this appart from using the ear and decide how much disharmonic is acceptable ?
Would be really great to get some advice on this, it is really a great tool, dont need much else to make a song. And as I said before: I have not even reached the possibilities of the sound scaping right now
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Tatanka, is poly limit a problem for you with RG?
- KVRAF
- 23103 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
As mentioned, you can automate the Key, Mode and Scale parameters in case of a longer riff, and you can do this even while a single note is held, any change in those three parameters is immediately affecting which notes are spit out (well, "immediately", it cannot impact already played notes naturally, but the first note played after those parameters are changed will be affected by the change).tatanka wrote:- Now my problem: if I generate a riff LONGER then my chord, lets say over 12 beats/3bars the riff wont fit to the chords on the other tracks and this should lead to some disharmonic between scale notes and changing chord notes I would suspect
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 5691 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1
Any chance of a short tutorial for this?EvilDragon wrote:As mentioned, you can automate the Key, Mode and Scale parameters in case of a longer riff, and you can do this even while a single note is held, any change in those three parameters is immediately affecting which notes are spit out (well, "immediately", it cannot impact already played notes naturally, but the first note played after those parameters are changed will be affected by the change).tatanka wrote:- Now my problem: if I generate a riff LONGER then my chord, lets say over 12 beats/3bars the riff wont fit to the chords on the other tracks and this should lead to some disharmonic between scale notes and changing chord notes I would suspect
Also, can we get more scales for it in a future update? I can provide real world example(s) if needed in Kontakt.
Last edited by Musical Gym on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.