Change programs from a MIDI controller

[neuquen64]

Hello... I need to use several programs in live performances, and I don't know how to make it with this sampler... =S please help me! Thanks

[elcallio]

Hello... I need to use several programs in live performances, and I don't know how to make it with this sampler... =S please help me! Thanks

You found the final (?) bug of 2.0 beta! (Or mayb I should say omission)

In TX16Wx v1 program change will switch between _performances_, thus changing the whole slot+program setup. This because it is perfectly legal to have different programs on different slots but on the same MIDI channel.

I started a discussion on the v2 beta mailing list about how this should work in v2, since I'm leaning towards it being better to just switch all slots on the MIDI channel you get the program change on the same program instead. If a user wants to use program change he will have to handle this potential issue. However, the question apparently never came to a conclusion, and looking at the code I can see that I still have not added back program change support!

Now, both the v1 behaviour as well as having slots switch program based on MIDI channel is easy enough. However, since v2 does not really number programs (there are no numbers in the UI), it is perhaps less user friendly to set up program change usage? Or should I ignore this and just make sure you can use it...

And should this be a setting? Or should I use Bank Select control change to switch performances instead? And should a setting be on a "settings" (global) level, or per project/bank?

These are some of the issues I never finalized before. But must today, because obviously I will fix this for the 2.0 gold.

Opinions wanted!

[EvilDragon]

This needs to be well thought through. Ideally there should be some sort of list of programs that would be assigned to a slot.


I hate to sound like I want everything from Kontakt in TX16Wx, but instrument banks in Kontakt are the best way of dealing with this feature, really. No other sampler deals with program changes as gracefully as Kontakt, and that's a fact I arrived to when trying out and testing all these different samplers. Kontakt does it the best, and most logically. Each MIDI channel can have its own instrument bank, and patch changes are instantaneous (because all programs in the bank are loaded at once, and you get smooth patch transistions because of it - it is THE BEST thing ever for live performances!).

[elcallio]

This needs to be well thought through. Ideally there should be some sort of list of programs that would be assigned to a slot.


I hate to sound like I want everything from Kontakt in TX16Wx, but instrument banks in Kontakt are the best way of dealing with this feature, really. No other sampler deals with program changes as gracefully as Kontakt, and that's a fact I arrived to when trying out and testing all these different samplers. Kontakt does it the best, and most logically. Each MIDI channel can have its own instrument bank, and patch changes are instantaneous (because all programs in the bank are loaded at once, and you get smooth patch transistions because of it - it is THE BEST thing ever for live performances!).

You fail to describe what an "instrument bank" actually is. Should I take this as being a set of programs assigned numbers, or? And how is this truly more helpful than simply having prg. change switch between either loaded programs on a slot or loaded performances in the bank?

I'm leaning towards making it simply switchable between the two, since for many purposes the former (program switching) is easy and good enough, while if you really need more complex transitions, switching the performance to oen with a different slot+program layout handles the other cases. And TX16Wx has since day 1 switched sounds without "cuts" or pauses, so... instantaneous enough?

[dexterbella]

I'm leaning towards making it simply switchable between the two, since for many purposes the former (program switching) is easy and good enough, while if you really need more complex transitions, switching the performance to oen with a different slot+program layout handles the other cases.

Sounds good to me.

[EvilDragon]

This needs to be well thought through. Ideally there should be some sort of list of programs that would be assigned to a slot.


I hate to sound like I want everything from Kontakt in TX16Wx, but instrument banks in Kontakt are the best way of dealing with this feature, really. No other sampler deals with program changes as gracefully as Kontakt, and that's a fact I arrived to when trying out and testing all these different samplers. Kontakt does it the best, and most logically. Each MIDI channel can have its own instrument bank, and patch changes are instantaneous (because all programs in the bank are loaded at once, and you get smooth patch transistions because of it - it is THE BEST thing ever for live performances!).

You fail to describe what an "instrument bank" actually is. Should I take this as being a set of programs assigned numbers, or? And how is this truly more helpful than simply having prg. change switch between either loaded programs on a slot or loaded performances in the bank?

Sorry. An instrument bank behaves like this. Basically it's an instrument which hosts other instruments:




Simply the most graceful solution there is, well as far as I'm concerned, at least - because you can have up to 64 instrument banks per Kontakt instance. So, if you have enough RAM to host it all, this would end up at 8192 instruments readily switchable, if each instrument bank is on its own MIDI channel!


You can double-click an instrument slot to see instrument structure and edit it.

[elcallio]

I don't see how this adds anything over having several programs loaded in TX16Wx and switching between them, except perhaps more visible numbers, and _maybe_ the ability to have different number assignments per channel. But that on the other hand seems like a complete overkill to me.

I've implemented what I described before:

You can now select whether program change switches performance or program in slots. This setting is per bank (and of course with a global default), thus you can have live banks with different behaviour depending on the occasion. (And the flag saves with DAW project).
If program change is per performance, it will listen in MIDI omni mode, for programs it will differentiate between assigned channels.

The setting is in the "MIDI / External Controllers" tab of setup page. (New name).

I think this will cover most bases.
...countdown continues...

[EvilDragon]

I don't see how this adds anything over having several programs loaded in TX16Wx and switching between them, except perhaps more visible numbers, and _maybe_ the ability to have different number assignments per channel. But that on the other hand seems like a complete overkill to me.

It's simply more compact than loading x instruments per instance then switch between their MIDI channels. Here you just have a list of entries of programs, and editing them is not at the forefront (hence the double-click).

And having different numbered assignments per channel is not at all overkill when doing a live rig setup, I've been there. Definitely very useful thing to have. YMMV, of course.


It's a different workflow, I understand. And I can't expect similar behavior from your sampler because of no DFD - Kontakt gets tons of mileage out of it, and that's why instrument banks are a more feasible solution for Kontakt. You can have one instrument bank with various string patches, one with pads, one with brass, one with synths or whatever, then just approach to them by having a zone on your MIDI controller sending over the needed MIDI channel and sending a program change. It's a bliss for live usage.

[neuquen64]

Thanks for replying... When I used this sampler, I imagined that for each program created it would be an automatic number assignment which it would response to the "program change" MIDI parameter, it's a simple solucion that is enough for me at least. Is my humble suggestion from what I intuitively expected.

[elcallio]

Thanks for replying... When I used this sampler, I imagined that for each program created it would be an automatic number assignment which it would response to the "program change" MIDI parameter, it's a simple solucion that is enough for me at least. Is my humble suggestion from what I intuitively expected.

Yes. That's how the solution I built works. Load 4 programs, they will respond to number 0-3 as they are listed in the program dropdown. (Or same for performances if the settings is per performance)

For the sake of fix verification, I will make a final RC available today, and reschedule the gold version for wednesday. If you would be so kind as to download and verify that this works reasonably, I'd be most appreciative.

Cheers
/C

[elcallio]

...please check out RC3. It contains the aforementioned fixes.
Cheers

[neuquen64]

...please check out RC3. It contains the aforementioned fixes.
Cheers

Oh yeah... enough for me! I really appreciate very much people like you who cares about people needs instead just making money. I haven't any credit card =S, but I'll find the way to donate some cash because developers like you deserve it, and of course thanks so much!