One of the bonus packs I got in the recent esoundz sale is the Vintage Keys. For the most part, I have to admit that it's the lamest one I've tried. The Tine pianos are the main reason I got it but sadly they're not very useable because of a very limited number of layers, and the high velocity layer being a switch: doesn't SampleTank do velocity crossfading? It's the oldest trick in the sampling book for mitigating a limited number of drastically different sounding layers.
If it is possible, then these patches should be modified accordingly. It's a real drag some of this back-end stuff can't be user customized on the commercial patches.
SampleTank doesn't do velocity crossfading?
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
First I don't think that library is lame at all. It's full of cool sounds. This is of course a very subjective thing as I know a lot of others have bought that one and are quite happy with it. Anyway... As for velocity it can do cross-switching in a combi if you want. You set up a limited range and layer. It would be nice to do some combis for these libraries which we may do at some point. But they're more budget oriented and more of a parallel with the Sonic Refills (in fact, I think that title is almost the same as the 60s and 70s Instruments refill). So it is not the intention to make the most realistic vintage electric pianos as a focus. They are more workstation type sounds like the rest of the multisamples in the series.
That's not to say that we won't do some very specific higher velocity layer wider chromatically sampled instruments for SampleTank though. It can be done although with some limits because it must be ram-based as opposed to streaming sized. Perhaps that is something you're more interested in if you have these particular complaints.
That's not to say that we won't do some very specific higher velocity layer wider chromatically sampled instruments for SampleTank though. It can be done although with some limits because it must be ram-based as opposed to streaming sized. Perhaps that is something you're more interested in if you have these particular complaints.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1895 posts since 13 Oct, 2002
I know my comment sounded a little harsh. I should have added "for my purposes". I'm really happy with the other libraries I got in this group sale, so IMO and "for my purposes", this one was a real short-change in comparison.
And I realize full well that these sample sets are RAM-based, and so light by design. That's totally fine and in fact suits the reason I need them: for jamming live using a light-weight laptop.
But you still didn't answer the question of velocity cross-fading: when you play a real Rhodes, the high velocity "dig" you get by playing harder comes in gradually. That's the beauty of it and what makes it so playable. The high velocity layer of the "LA Rhodes Ep88 3Dyn" sounds good but only comes in very suddenly at high velocities. The patch would be so much more playable if it faded in as you play harder. I'm not trying to show your technology out, I'm just interested in getting the most playability out of the samples. The samples are good, just a little more tech would get "there". It's quite frustrating!
And I realize full well that these sample sets are RAM-based, and so light by design. That's totally fine and in fact suits the reason I need them: for jamming live using a light-weight laptop.
But you still didn't answer the question of velocity cross-fading: when you play a real Rhodes, the high velocity "dig" you get by playing harder comes in gradually. That's the beauty of it and what makes it so playable. The high velocity layer of the "LA Rhodes Ep88 3Dyn" sounds good but only comes in very suddenly at high velocities. The patch would be so much more playable if it faded in as you play harder. I'm not trying to show your technology out, I'm just interested in getting the most playability out of the samples. The samples are good, just a little more tech would get "there". It's quite frustrating!
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
I hear ya. Well, first we don't make the technology we just make the samples. IK makes SampleTank not SR. There are a lot of strengths that SampleTank has that other sample-based VI's don't have. But at the same time there are a number of features I too have always wanted in SampleTank that just aren't there... and cross-fading velocities is one of them. Cross-SWITCHING can be done but it is abrupt as you mentioned. Most of the time that's actually desirable for many reasons but in certain cases, such as the one you described, yes that can be nice to gradually have that sound fade in. Not possible with the current version of SampleTank but you never know in the future.
That said, we do our sounds in multiple formats so we will be doing some more detailed Rhodes samples (including more of that beautiful 88 ) in another format that CAN do crossfading and release noises and more. Which format I am not sure.
That said, we do our sounds in multiple formats so we will be doing some more detailed Rhodes samples (including more of that beautiful 88 ) in another format that CAN do crossfading and release noises and more. Which format I am not sure.
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- KVRian
- 505 posts since 30 Jan, 2007
By chance do you have the Piano Collection (or Sonik Synth 2) in addition to the Vintage Keys?
There's a sound called Sweet Rhodez in the Piano Collection that layers very well with the big Rhodes in the Vintage Keys set. By layering, you could create your own Combi to stagger the high-velocity overbite.
Personally, I prefer to soften the bite rather than stagger it. My favorite layering combination might not be exactly what you're after, but it makes a pretty cool Rhodes all the same:
Load up the big Rhodes from Vintage Keys plus two instances of Sweet Rhodez on the same MIDI channel. Turn off the effects on the Sweet Rhodez layers. On one of the Sweet Rhodez, hit the VELOCITY button, set the Curve to Exp2 and set the Amp knob all the way up to 60.
Optional: on the other Sweet Rhodez layer, hit the SYNTH button and turn the FINE knob to +8. This creates just a hint of the detuned chorus effect. (I love the effect, but don't want too much of it in this case as it's important to maintain the feeling of just one instrument being played.)
Set the volume of the layers as you like - I prefer having the big Rhodes from Vintage Keys a bit louder than the other two layers. I also prefer to turn the polyphony of each layer up to 40.
The net effect is that you end up with three basic velocity ranges rather than just two (actually more, but you'll notice three of them) and the differences between the layers aren't so harsh.
You could use many layers of either EP, altering the velocity curves and staggering their velocity ranges in order to create your own velocity crossfade. But the one above meets my needs, so I stopped there.
There's a sound called Sweet Rhodez in the Piano Collection that layers very well with the big Rhodes in the Vintage Keys set. By layering, you could create your own Combi to stagger the high-velocity overbite.
Personally, I prefer to soften the bite rather than stagger it. My favorite layering combination might not be exactly what you're after, but it makes a pretty cool Rhodes all the same:
Load up the big Rhodes from Vintage Keys plus two instances of Sweet Rhodez on the same MIDI channel. Turn off the effects on the Sweet Rhodez layers. On one of the Sweet Rhodez, hit the VELOCITY button, set the Curve to Exp2 and set the Amp knob all the way up to 60.
Optional: on the other Sweet Rhodez layer, hit the SYNTH button and turn the FINE knob to +8. This creates just a hint of the detuned chorus effect. (I love the effect, but don't want too much of it in this case as it's important to maintain the feeling of just one instrument being played.)
Set the volume of the layers as you like - I prefer having the big Rhodes from Vintage Keys a bit louder than the other two layers. I also prefer to turn the polyphony of each layer up to 40.
The net effect is that you end up with three basic velocity ranges rather than just two (actually more, but you'll notice three of them) and the differences between the layers aren't so harsh.
You could use many layers of either EP, altering the velocity curves and staggering their velocity ranges in order to create your own velocity crossfade. But the one above meets my needs, so I stopped there.
