What is it!? (Sylenth1, Twin2, Ultra Analog...)

[zerocrossing]

So, that Albino/Surge/Zebra/Gladiator thread got me thinking. Mostly when it became a Zebra v Sylenth1 thread and the examples came flying. To me, i hear characteristics that while not unique to any single instrument, are present in large amounts in some and almost not at all in others. Today I spent a bunch of time trying to put my finger on these differences.

I mostly stuck to that was in my "VA" folder, though I'm fairly loose that that term as instruments like Zebra are pretty loose with that term as well with their multiple synthesis types.

Anyway, there was a certain characteristic I could get out of some of the VAs that I couldn't out of others. I'm not even sure what to call it or how to describe it. My mental shorthand compares it to stepping on freshly packed very dry ("powder") snow. A kind of "crunch." As if the sound itself (often evident in bright pads and the attack part of sound) had a crispy crunchity dry outside (nothing to do with reverb) with an inside of good creamy goodness. VAs that had this characteristic were Sylenth1, Ultra Analog, Twin2 and to a lesser degree Zebra and Gladiator 2. Ones that didn't have it at all no matter how hard I tried to dial it in were any of the GForce synths, Autria sims, Albino 3 and many others. Now, I'm not equating this characteristic with any sort of quality. I love the GForce sims... Albino 3 sounds great... there's just a smoothness and a roundness to the tone in those. Zebra's one that seems to do one of the best jobs at being great at both.

Oddly I've heard this type of fuzzy dry crunch sound coming from some tube amps I've owned as well as good amp sims like Amplitube. Does anyone know what the hell I'm talking about? I've heard it in the Mopho demo tracks too so I'm assuming that this is something that's a characteristic of analog circuitry that's purposely being modeled. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Point out other instruments that have it?

[Jeremy_NSL]

What types of sounds are you comparing? Filtered, unfiltered? High, low resonance?

My guess is that its probably (as usual) the different filter algorithms you are hearing. Maybe filter drive as well (not sure if all the synths you mention have that feature though)

[zerocrossing]

What types of sounds are you comparing? Filtered, unfiltered? High, low resonance?

My guess is that its probably (as usual) the different filter algorithms you are hearing. Maybe filter drive as well (not sure if all the synths you mention have that feature though)

I'll make a recording of some example later. I suspect that you're right about the filter drive, though I don't think all the synths have an adjustment for it.

[PaulSC]

What types of sounds are you comparing? Filtered, unfiltered? High, low resonance?

My guess is that its probably (as usual) the different filter algorithms you are hearing. Maybe filter drive as well (not sure if all the synths you mention have that feature though)

I'll make a recording of some example later. I suspect that you're right about the filter drive, though I don't think all the synths have an adjustment for it.

Since Twin 2 is one of the synths you associate with this quality, it seems worth mentioning that most or all of its filter types (maybe not the "Clean" type at the bottom of the list) have a lot of overdrive built into them. You CAN adjust this, but not via a "drive" knob.

Maybe you're already totally familiar with Twin2's behavior, but I thought it might be interesting to offer the following short tutorial. The drive effect is more dramatic than I expected until I explored it myself...

TUTORIAL ON CONTROLLING FILTER DRIVE IN TWIN/TWIN2

1. Load the "Clean" preset.
2. Turn Filter 1 OFF (Filter 2 is already off).
3. In the Oscillators panel, set Osc 1 to Triangle, tuned normally. Turn on Osc 2, set it to Triangle, and tune it to +0.334 Octaves.
4. Note that you can clearly hear two oscillators pitched a major third apart.
5. Now turn Filter 1 back ON. By default, it's a lowpass with its cutoff set all the way up, so it's not doing much to cut any frequencies -- but notice the dramatic effect of this step, which is due to the filter drive. The two oscillators are now totally "glued" together into a single timbre and you can no longer discern two separate pitches, because the filter drive is non-linear. You can toggle filter 1 ON/OFF to understand what it's contributing.

Now let's keep the filter on, but eliminate the overdrive...

6. Option-drag (alt-drag) the Osc 1 Level knob to reduce all the oscillator levels down to about -18 dB. Then, to compensate for the lower levels of the sources, raise the master Output level at the bottom right of the GUI to about +9 dB. Now, if you toggle the filter ON/OFF, you'll find there's much less noticeable difference between the two states, because the filter is contributing hardly any nonlinearities when its input signal remains closer to zero.

Filter sensitivity to input level is a factor in lots of synth designs, but I've never seen another software example where the effect is as dramatic as it is in Twin(2) -- you can ALWAYS get very different results from it by switching between high filter input (with low post-filter gain) and low filter input (with more post-filter gain to compensate).

Interesting? Relevant?

[zerocrossing]

What types of sounds are you comparing? Filtered, unfiltered? High, low resonance?

My guess is that its probably (as usual) the different filter algorithms you are hearing. Maybe filter drive as well (not sure if all the synths you mention have that feature though)

I'll make a recording of some example later. I suspect that you're right about the filter drive, though I don't think all the synths have an adjustment for it.

Since Twin 2 is one of the synths you associate with this quality, it seems worth mentioning that most or all of its filter types (maybe not the "Clean" type at the bottom of the list) have a lot of overdrive built into them. You CAN adjust this, but not via a "drive" knob.
Interesting? Relevant?

YES. Very much so. Thank you. I think that pretty much nails it. I like that "place" where things break and the distortion that results from it. I think a lot of the moogish stuff lacks this. In a way a more "hi-fi" style of sound but perfect in it's own places as well.

I was going to record a Sylenth1 version of what I'm talking about and I got lazy and thought, "it's go to be on the site..." and low and behold, it is.

http://www.lennardigital.com/modules/sylenth1/

tracks 11, 16 and especially 21 are perfect examples of what I'm talking about. I also noticed yesterday that Elios Vocoder has a bit of this crunch

http://www.eiosis.com/elsvocoder?gclid= ... agodVX7DnA

Psychologically I wonder why some people are attracted to this type of sound. To me it almost scratches an itch in my brain. My wife is out the door when things get too distorted. She calls it "screechy."