AMEN.This is one of the areas where I'm lucky. Since I play all my own guitar, bass, keyboard and drums I can do whatever the hell I want and no one can stop me
The curse of the drum set in modern music
-
- KVRist
- 43 posts since 18 Oct, 2004
Visit The Atropos Project
-
- KVRist
- 418 posts since 19 Nov, 2002
Seriously: I'm trying to make a point by over-simplifying. I know that the world is much more complicated (thank god, even if he's a woman). But still. Listen to the radio. Bum-cha-Bum-cha.
This happens to emulate the pulse that all humanity identifies with. Ever instinctively tap your toe to music that has no drums?
-
- KVRAF
- 2831 posts since 11 Jun, 2003
even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.
I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..
This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..
I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..
This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..
Play it by ear
-
- KVRist
- 77 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Dunstable - UK
Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren
Darren
there are 10 types of people in this world - those that understand binary and those that don't...
-
- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
How does that square with the fact that the majority of classical dance music is in 3/4?darrenn wrote:Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren
-
- KVRAF
- 6519 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from UK
-
- KVRist
- 492 posts since 26 Feb, 2003 from Vancouver BC
If God had meant us to play in 10/8, She would have given us 10 fingers and 10 toes.
Oh...
right...
K
Oh...
right...
K
-
- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
Or that Hindustani music doesn't even use Western styled meters at all, but counts (talas) of beats that alternate...5 of the most common of these use odd numbered beats:nuffink wrote:How does that square with the fact that the majority of classical dance music is in 3/4?darrenn wrote:Modern music's reliance on 4/4 time and basic drum rhythms comes from the simple fact our bodies are symetrical and have two arms, two legs and two hands (amongst other things). Everything needs to be divisable by two - dancing evolved from walking that also is in 4/4 (or 2/2) time.
Darren
dadra - six counts: 3 + 3
rupak - seven counts: 3 + 2 + 2
jhaptal - ten counts: 2 + 3 + 2 + 3
dhamar - fourteen counts: 5 + 2 + 3 + 4
dipchandi - fourteen counts: 3 + 4 + 3 + 4
POOF! Another theory bites the dust!
-
- KVRist
- 274 posts since 15 Nov, 2004 from Gainesville, FL USA
cool. yeah, working with a different 'pallettes' of sounds can always help make things more interesting.pheeleep wrote:even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.
I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..
This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..
i guess the point of my original post was simply that I don't think the rise of the drumkit is necessarily responsible for shaping the mass conscious' sense of rhythm, and the prevalent expressions thereof: whereas even when other forms of percussion find there way into the mix the rythmic strucures (boom-bap boom-bap) tend to remain similar for most music other than classical, jazz and you ambient freaks' stuff.
Ideas are bulletproof... I am not.
- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
There is all sorts of east european folk music with fives and sevens and nines.
Check out Bartoks dances in Bulgarian Rhythm.
Hell, check out Bartok, period.
Check out Bartoks dances in Bulgarian Rhythm.
Hell, check out Bartok, period.
-
- KVRist
- 77 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Dunstable - UK
It was just a theory behind why "modern" "popular" music has such simple rythms. I would not consider Hindustani, Classical dance music or East european folk music as "modern popular music"
Sure there are other sigs and rythms and more complex dances than the pogo or funky chicken but our symetry has a lot to do with even number time sigs and how popular music is designed for people to dance to en masse on a Saturday night.
Darren
Sure there are other sigs and rythms and more complex dances than the pogo or funky chicken but our symetry has a lot to do with even number time sigs and how popular music is designed for people to dance to en masse on a Saturday night.
Darren
there are 10 types of people in this world - those that understand binary and those that don't...
-
- Banned
- 12368 posts since 30 Apr, 2002 from i might peeramid
are you related to quincy?
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.
-
Stupid American Pig Stupid American Pig https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4753
- KVRAF
- 7065 posts since 25 Nov, 2002 from not sure
Premiers symtoms is a great album. There is some drum loops employed on that one, but I hear what yer talking about. One thing about "Air" is that the drums are usually way back in the mix and they are not really emphasized- at least in their early stuff, lately, they have been really bringing the drums forward, and I think their music has suffered somewhat...(coincidence????? maybe)pheeleep wrote:even without a drummer, in typical music you often end up with hand clapping, tambourine shaking, etc. that basically serves the same function(s) as a drumset would, just with less oomph.
I was listening to some "Air" songs this week ( I love their music ).. it was their earlier stuff ( premiers symptomes ) and noticed that they don't use drum kit sounds ( or very rarely ).. no snares.. no hi hats.. they rarely even use kick drums... The snares seem to be replaced by rim shots most of the time, or by other percussion sounds.. instead of a hi hat they often use shakes... the kicks are replaced by "ethnic" drum hits..
This made me want to experiment trying to make a tune or two that don't use a typical drum kit, but, rather, some other types of percussion sound ( hand drum, shakes, snaps, etc.. ) I seem to always immediately go for the drum kit when I start a song.. time to experiment a bit..
-
- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
Seems unlikely to me that we only woke up to the fact that we have symmetrical bodies in "modern" times. Why is divisible by two suddenly all the rage? Was it only after quantum mechanics was born that dancers looked around and said, "Hey, two legs. Two arms. Two hands. Two feet! We can make this work!"darrenn wrote:It was just a theory behind why "modern" "popular" music has such simple rythms.
-
- KVRist
- 68 posts since 21 Oct, 2003
some of the basic Tabla rhymts are great as well. Although they will play a 1,2 and 4, the upbeat movements makes it sound more swinging... or 'swingy' like the Brazilians say
Kind regards,
Marco Raaphorst
[composer/sound designer]
_____________________________________________________
Melodiefabriek - http://melodiefabriek.nl/
Marco Raaphorst
[composer/sound designer]
_____________________________________________________
Melodiefabriek - http://melodiefabriek.nl/