KVR Audio

nachenko · Post by **nachenko** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:28 am

Hi everyone!

I'm trapped in a chord progression I don't know how to get out of. Problem is, I'm studying theory right now, I have enough knowledge to identify and name my scales and chords, but not enough to find a "way out" when my ear can't find it.

On a E dorian scale (which is also G lydian), I have:

I - I - V - IV

I transition smoothly to (and it sounds great)

III - I - IV - II (... which happens to also be I - VI - III - VII in G lydian)

Problem is, I want to go back to I - I - V - IV and I don't know how! I can't find anything that fits and doesn't sound forced.

If there's a chunk of theory I can study to understand why this is happening and how to get out of this, just point me there and I'll get into it.

This transition is the only thing missing to finish the track. I put a temporary solution there.

This is the track, BTW. Transition explained here starts at 0:55.

https://soundcloud.com/manfromspace/hap ... LCs#t=0:55

Thanks!

Milford · Post by **Milford** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:08 am

I’m not in a spot where I can listen to what you’ve got (ha, there’s a lyric for ya), but have you tried
Ending the seconds section with ivm7 (F#m7)
And/or starting the first section with i-sus4 (Esus4)?

nachenko · Post by **nachenko** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:36 am

Using E sus4 was something I had never thought with my limited knowledge. I'll try it when I get home. Thanks!

Obsolete317542 · Post by **Obsolete317542** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:39 pm

Sounds to me like you're doing:
I - I - III - IV

Then this:
III - I - V - II - III - IV - V - VII (x2)

What I would do, is change the last repetition to
III - I - V - II - III - IV - V - V

Don't go to VII, in classical harmony it can sometimes work like a V7 substitute but in modes like this it just sounds weird and doesn't lead naturally back to I. Also, by staying on V a bit longer, it might build a little anticipation towards the return of I.

Nice vibe from the track BTW! Finish it!

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Sounds like minor, shouldn't it be all "i" (lower case) instead of "I" (capital) ?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:04 pm

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:09 pm

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:14 pm

nachenko · Post by **nachenko** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:00 am

Eclectus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:39 pm Sounds to me like you're doing:
I - I - III - IV

Then this:
III - I - V - II - III - IV - V - VII (x2)

What I would do, is change the last repetition to
III - I - V - II - III - IV - V - V

Thanks, Eclectus, I tried your suggestion and it certainly transforms the second repetition into something different and easier to fit. Still looking into it because not only the harmony but also the mixing needs to fit. YOu've been super helpful. I hpe I have good news tomorrow regarding this.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:36 pm

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:34 pm

... or you're on mute

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:20 pm

yeah

fully gormless either way

let the airing of grievances commence

Obsolete317542 · Post by **Obsolete317542** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:38 am

BertKoor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:43 pm Sounds like minor, shouldn't it be all "i" (lower case) instead of "I" (capital) ?

I looked it up and basically when doing Roman numeral analysis you should write uppercase for a major triad and lowercase for a minor triad.

However, I learned Schenkerian analysis (I have a bachelor's degree in musicology) and there it's all uppercase. Because you always know the scale you are in, you can simply derive if a triad is major or minor by looking where you are in the scale.

In this particular case, we are in a grey zone. Schenkerian analysis works best for classical harmonic music, and this is not that. Still, for what the OT wanted to get across, and what I wanted to tell them, I would argue that all uppercase was perfectly functional!

nachenko wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:00 am I tried your suggestion and it certainly transforms the second repetition into something different and easier to fit. Still looking into it because not only the harmony but also the mixing needs to fit. YOu've been super helpful. I hpe I have good news tomorrow regarding this.

I wonder how you're doing with the arrangement. Any progress?

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:22 am

Schenkerian analysis won’t give clarity, and is more likely to confuse things for someone not well versed in theory.

It’s probably better to stick to the more common convention of upper and lower case Roman numerals. “Because you know the scale you are in” might not be applicable here, especially as there is some confusion around modes.

All uppercase might be perfectly functional if you have only the diatonic chords from a scale represented in a piece, but it doesn’t account for every situation and definitely adds clarity in many situations, which is why it is a convention.

Functional · Post by **Functional** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:16 am

Eclectus wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:38 am However, I learned Schenkerian analysis (I have a bachelor's degree in musicology) and there it's all uppercase. Because you always know the scale you are in, you can simply derive if a triad is major or minor by looking where you are in the scale.

Please never do this. We don't live in classical period and using this form of analysis really contrives things. If I say I-V-III then what is it? Major, major, minor? Minor, major, major? Minor, minor, major? Only my barber will know

EDIT: now to think, even a case for major, minor, major could be made because chromatic mediant movement still works

How do I get out of this chord progression?