Is using chord plugins and tools cheating if you do not know music theory?

[jacqueslacouth]

Apparently, Portland has to deal with a unicycling bagpiper so Wigan may have gotten off lightly.

Is it wrong that I like the bagpipes?

NO, I love the bagpipes. The Battlefield Band are absolutely awesome. It is also a wonderfully passive aggressive way of informing neighbours that their party went on too late and was too loud, by playing bagpipe music loudly in the morning to help their hangovers....It's like the neighbourly thing to do.

[ghettosynth]

Apparently, Portland has to deal with a unicycling bagpiper so Wigan may have gotten off lightly.

Is it wrong that I like the bagpipes?

NO, I love the bagpipes. The Battlefield Band are absolutely awesome. It is also a wonderfully passive aggressive way of informing neighbours that their party went on too late and was too loud, by playing bagpipe music loudly in the morning to help their hangovers....It's like the neighbourly thing to do.

Truth be told, I like the Trombone as well. If I could find one for about $10 at a garage sale, I'd bring it home.

[mladi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4GLAKEjU4w

[vurt]

Apparently, Portland has to deal with a unicycling bagpiper so Wigan may have gotten off lightly.

Is it wrong that I like the bagpipes?

NO, I love the bagpipes. The Battlefield Band are absolutely awesome. It is also a wonderfully passive aggressive way of informing neighbours that their party went on too late and was too loud, by playing bagpipe music loudly in the morning to help their hangovers....It's like the neighbourly thing to do.

past few days ive been using deerhoof, tg, dillinger escape plan and patton solo albums, to do the same thing to my folk loving neighbour

[perpetual3]

... the condition essential to the Beatles success - their production and innovative studio techniques, rather than their musical talent...

Wow. What color is the sky on your planet?

The condition essential to The Beatles' success was things like I Want to Hold Your Hand had gigantic appeal to pubescent girls who bought all the 45RPM *records*; as did the Beatles Haircut (read: Marketing). The Beatles only ever had the kind of access to long, long hours in Abbey Road Studios for George Martin to innovate using all the gear in those ways having been a huge seller of records already.

The stupid quora post was not so stupid as to assert "The Beatles" lacked "musical talent". It did appear to be a reply to something something people who didn't know music theory. There is no actual connection to knowing music theory and musical talent per se.

You misunderstand - I was merely rephrasing what I understood to be the thesis of the Quoran author....

[vurt]

mohammed?

[perpetual3]

... the condition essential to the Beatles success - their production and innovative studio techniques, rather than their musical talent...

Wow. What color is the sky on your planet?

The condition essential to The Beatles' success was things like I Want to Hold Your Hand had gigantic appeal to pubescent girls who bought all the 45RPM *records*; as did the Beatles Haircut (read: Marketing). The Beatles only ever had the kind of access to long, long hours in Abbey Road Studios for George Martin to innovate using all the gear in those ways having been a huge seller of records already.

The stupid quora post was not so stupid as to assert "The Beatles" lacked "musical talent". It did appear to be a reply to something something people who didn't know music theory. There is no actual connection to knowing music theory and musical talent per se.

You quoted me completely out of context, which you then used for a blatant personal attack, which frankly, undermines your own comments and analysis and leads me to consider the possibility that you may have some sort of psychological disposition for seeking confrontation.

Here is what I wrote:

“I really appreciate your analysis. Rhetorical fallacies of the Quoran argument notwithstanding, I found the claim that the condition essential to the Beatles success - their production and innovative studio techniques, rather than their musical talent - very thought provoking.

Clearly, I’m referring to the authors claim. Considering something thought provoking does not imply that I agree with it; you yourself are good evidence of that.

I find it hard to believe that you even read the rest of my comment because I was essentially agreeing with you.

And the color of the sky changes, depending on the time of day, the weather, the seasons.

[Forgotten]

he got off lightly, around here (near "the 'pool") you can get in to physical altercations just for not knowing every word to imagine
im not even joking

Only ever went to Liverpool once, and in the week I was there the Beatles came up in conversation more times than they did in probably the entire previous year. Didn't ever get into an altercation over it (I think my accent was more likely to do that...), but if I'm ever there again I'll just get someone to lead to me to a piano and I'll play Imagine for them and hopefully all will be good.

[vurt]

nah as long as you don't have a manc accent youre grand

[Forgotten]

mohammed?

I keep thinking that every time I see it

[jancivil]

... the condition essential to the Beatles success - their production and innovative studio techniques, rather than their musical talent...

Wow. What color is the sky on your planet?

The condition essential to The Beatles' success was things like I Want to Hold Your Hand had gigantic appeal to pubescent girls who bought all the 45RPM *records*; as did the Beatles Haircut (read: Marketing). The Beatles only ever had the kind of access to long, long hours in Abbey Road Studios for George Martin to innovate using all the gear in those ways having been a huge seller of records already.

The stupid quora post was not so stupid as to assert "The Beatles" lacked "musical talent". It did appear to be a reply to something something people who didn't know music theory. There is no actual connection to knowing music theory and musical talent per se.

You misunderstand - I was merely rephrasing what I understood to be the thesis of the Quoran author....

Ok, but 'rather than their musical talent' is kind of interpretative, but I guess it goes far enough in that direction you could come away with that. Sorry if I was unfair, to me it's such a bizarre view anyway.

[jancivil]

First this:

Well, if we're relying on fallacy then don't mind me while I enjoy the thoughts of the guy with the bonafides.

This fallacy is known as appeal to authority; it's not a fallacy when the appeal is to a recognized authority. You may really go for this bit of ludicrously fatuous garbage, but I don't recognize any authority (this is a fallacy you commit time and time again, learning nothing) and the subsequent links to other things don't help it.
It's doubly hilarious because of the irony of you posturing like my failure to recognize the authority of somebody on quora flown in from out of the blue talking such crap is fallacious is done in the same breath as you doing a pretty recognizable appeal to authority move. And compounding the fallacy of it all, you do it in preference to addressing any of my argument.
How chickenshit is that? How unspeakably weak.


I'm pretty fvcking sure I would have to have more experience in the musical world than any idiot who would write "In this world, playing the studio is the most culturally significant kind of musical creativity." It's so outlandish, one wonders if he even believes it. But it's totally unreflective guy-full-of-himself on crack having a big crap.

"In this world" referring to "all of the music that a person hears in modern Western society is recorded"
Sorry, whatever 'bonafides' this person can boast of does not improve the quality of:
1) that being nowhere near being a fact; nor improve the kind of writing where one uses the Weasel Words To a good approximation & all, in the same breath. <All of ___, more or less> is a pretty obvious mistake, either it is or isn't all of it.
2) the assertion that in this world all music that a person hears is recorded music. Brilliant, all of live music in the West was disappeared for this one.
3) It's a form that's understood much better by pop listeners than "real" musicians, because we don't have the formal and analytical vocabulary to understand recordings the way we do for music theory.
Pop listeners understand a form better because a supposed other or opposite group (or, 'we all', we can't be sure) doesn't.
Who writes like this? IT'S LOGICALLY INCOMPETENT. A freshman should have been trained better, and I'm a high school dropout who already had the Logic 101 of it all to that extent before I snuck in. Bonafides/sic MY ASS.

enuff said for now

You quoted me completely out of context, which you then used for a blatant personal attack, which frankly, undermines your own comments and analysis and leads me to consider the possibility that you may have some sort of psychological disposition for seeking confrontation.

I'm really not worried about your assessment of my particular sort of snarky little comment if you have to go that far into an ACTUAL personal attack which really crosses a line. In my most heated moments I strive to stop short of that.

It's a stupid internet bit of snark, and I'll go so far as to call my use of it stupid.

'which undermines your own comments', well, there's a term for that as a fallacy, and it's called argument to the person, originally argumentum ad hominem. What I wrote is valid or it isn't, and it's fine if someone has no time for it. Your assessment of a psychological condition, whether I have that or not does nothing itself to the argument. If you disagree with me now only because I said 'what color is the sky on your planet', I would recommend an assessment of your state rather than worry about my own. I actually have issues, nota bene.

Here is what I wrote:

“I really appreciate your analysis. Rhetorical fallacies of the Quoran argument notwithstanding, I found the claim that the condition essential to the Beatles success - their production and innovative studio techniques, rather than their musical talent - very thought provoking.

Clearly, I’m referring to the authors claim. Considering something thought provoking does not imply that I agree with it; you yourself are good evidence of that.

Clearly you are, but I never saw that individual having dismissed their musical talent like that so it appeared to me you had gone hog wild with the premise.

I find it hard to believe that you even read the rest of my comment because I was essentially agreeing with you.

You are correct. I read it in quotes, out of context. My apologies. I am old and tired and would prefer to stay asleep permanently at this point. What's your excuse for talking shit about a person. The reason I didn't see it all is I had you on ignore already.

[Aleatoriac]

Not cheating.
Won't ever get you what you would get if you studied.
I disagree with any attempt to say which one is better in some ontological, objectively measurable sense. Depends on your goals and so on.

All I can do is recommend learning theory, studying - and playing an instrument. Even if AI come out that are able to do everything we can do, faster, in ways everyone raves about. Doesn't matter - there is no experience like playing a beautifully maintained grand piano in a good room, with theory on how the bits go together so you can express what you "hear in your mind's ear."

Nothing at all. In my experience (my subjective feelings, sense of adventure, wellness, fulfillment, etc.) it was better than sex. Better than religion. And doing it with knowledge gained from even a narrow range of composers yields experiences impossible to duplicate exactly, otherwise.

[ghettosynth]

it varies so widely from musician to musician. it's well-documented that pharrell doesn't know shit about even the most basic music theory, yet he is one of the most successful producers and songwriters of the 21st century (so far).

https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMusicM ... _actually/

[jancivil]

Anyways, angry uptight music snobs aside...In response to the OP, I thought along the lines of if using chord plugins IS cheating then surely...

Use loops = CHEATING!
Quantise = CHEATING
Draw Notes in Piano Roll = CHEATING
Sampling = CHEATING
Using unaltered presets on, well pretty much anything = CHEATING
Toontrack EZ anything = CHEATING

OR

We come to grips with the modern reality allows for a wide range of approaches to making music and it is not always buried in a deep understanding of traditional music theory. to all

A piano is a machine that leverages technology to make it (relatively) easy to play hammered string sounds.

So the utter failure of logic making a contextual sort of (if it's being used instead of sorting your own chords in a track) 'chord helper plugins' into an objection of all technology eludes you. When you argue you can only be bothered to check posts to cherry pick whatever and go for that. You are really helpless at this.