Accidental Plagiarising?

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Hi,

I don't know to what extent this belongs in this section, but... I'm terrified of accidentally ripping-off other people's work in the sense that I get an idea either by playing the piano at random or I might just get an idea at night and I write it down in the morning, but how do I know if it's really my idea and not a subconscious channelling of somebody else's idea?

I plan to release music at some point and I'd absolutely hate if somebody said, "Hey, that's a rip-off of XX!", I listened to it and went "damn, it really is the same melody..."

I have a couple of methods I use, like thinking about whether I may have subconsciously "borrowed" something from the music I listened to recently, but for all I know, I may be channelling something I heard years ago; I try to run it by friends/family/acquaintances, but the music I listen to is hardly mainstream, so chances are terrific that somebody who's on a steady diet of e.g. Lana del Rey or Avicii or some stuff like that will never have heard the songs I like... etc. etc.

Thanks,

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killahpl wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:50 am Hi,

I don't know to what extent this belongs in this section, but... I'm terrified of accidentally ripping-off other people's work in the sense that I get an idea either by playing the piano at random or I might just get an idea at night and I write it down in the morning, but how do I know if it's really my idea and not a subconscious channelling of somebody else's idea?

I plan to release music at some point and I'd absolutely hate if somebody said, "Hey, that's a rip-off of XX!", I listened to it and went "damn, it really is the same melody..."

I have a couple of methods I use, like thinking about whether I may have subconsciously "borrowed" something from the music I listened to recently, but for all I know, I may be channelling something I heard years ago; I try to run it by friends/family/acquaintances, but the music I listen to is hardly mainstream, so chances are terrific that somebody who's on a steady diet of e.g. Lana del Rey or Avicii or some stuff like that will never have heard the songs I like... etc. etc.

Thanks,
just dont worry about and and just channel your efforts into making your own music and making it as good as you can. as far as plagiarism, i can guarantee you someone will always head elements in it they have heard before. and if you are successful, a slew of people who didn't manage to make money will come out of the woodwork and claim to be the originals.
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You know... i think there should be changed something fundamentally about this kind of thing. At some point, making music won't be possible without plagiarising someone. I really wonder how much longer it makes sense to be able to make copyright claims for music.

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chk071 wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:30 pm At some point, making music won't be possible without plagiarising someone.
why not?
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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At some point, about any melody imaginable will have been "taken".

I even sometimes have the feeling that all those BZZ BZZ RAA RAA dupstep sounds in modern EDM genres are partly because they don't dare to use melodies anymore, because they always have to fear that it's already been used in other tracks...
Last edited by chk071 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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killahpl wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:50 am Hi,

I don't know to what extent this belongs in this section, but... I'm terrified of accidentally ripping-off other people's work in the sense that I get an idea either by playing the piano at random or I might just get an idea at night and I write it down in the morning, but how do I know if it's really my idea and not a subconscious channelling of somebody else's idea?

I can understand your concern, but you are overthinking it. Just make your music and develop your own sound.

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chk071 wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:30 pm You know... i think there should be changed something fundamentally about this kind of thing. At some point, making music won't be possible without plagiarising someone. I really wonder how much longer it makes sense to be able to make copyright claims for music.
i think now we are getting into a discussion of what is plagiarism and how does it differ from influence and homage and collage. what does plagiarism really mean within the context of a current modern world where computer technology allows you to create exact replicas and copies of something else with a simple copy and paste effort.

if you have been around long enough and have been exposed to a lot of different types of music and genres, you will recognize a bit of something else in whatever you hear.

i personally think what really counts is what you actually do with the influences you have in your music. are you finding new and interesting ways of presenting it that connects with a new audience? are you adding something good and interesting and changing the genre of music you are operating in?

look at some well known bands in the rock and quasi alternative space like The Killers and Modest Mouse. Its quite obvious they are influenced by 80s pop rock bands like U2 and Duran Duran -- but they took it to a different level and place and aren't just a caricature of their influences.

i agree the idea of copyright is very out step with music and i think it has been for a long time. but where is it going to go? "Yo, you stole my "Wub" mother f**ker. Now I am gonna sue you!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tsRv6VzfPo
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telecode wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:28 pm
chk071 wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:30 pm You know... i think there should be changed something fundamentally about this kind of thing. At some point, making music won't be possible without plagiarising someone. I really wonder how much longer it makes sense to be able to make copyright claims for music.
i think now we are getting into a discussion of what is plagiarism and how does it differ from influence and homage and collage. what does plagiarism really mean within the context of a current modern world where computer technology allows you to create exact replicas and copies of something else with a simple copy and paste effort.

if you have been around long enough and have been exposed to a lot of different types of music and genres, you will recognize a bit of something else in whatever you hear.

i personally think what really counts is what you actually do with the influences you have in your music. are you finding new and interesting ways of presenting it that connects with a new audience? are you adding something good and interesting and changing the genre of music you are operating in?

look at some well known bands in the rock and quasi alternative space like The Killers and Modest Mouse. Its quite obvious they are influenced by 80s pop rock bands like U2 and Duran Duran -- but they took it to a different level and place and aren't just a caricature of their influences.

i agree the idea of copyright is very out step with music and i think it has been for a long time. but where is it going to go? "Yo, you stole my "Wub" mother f**ker. Now I am gonna sue you!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tsRv6VzfPo
Fair enough. :) I guess the use of the word "plagiarising" is a bit wrong then, because, obviously, the OP is rather concerned about similarity, as you rightly pointed out in your first post.

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Thanks for all the replies.
JoaquinAce wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:45 pm
killahpl wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:50 am Hi,

I don't know to what extent this belongs in this section, but... I'm terrified of accidentally ripping-off other people's work in the sense that I get an idea either by playing the piano at random or I might just get an idea at night and I write it down in the morning, but how do I know if it's really my idea and not a subconscious channelling of somebody else's idea?

I can understand your concern, but you are overthinking it. Just make your music and develop your own sound.
See, some time ago I would've thought so too, bo a couple of weeks ago I asked a friend of mine to listen to the chorus of a song I'd been working on. He listens to it and comes back to me with an "I think I've heard this before :)"... so I go, "Whaddya mean?", and he goes: "The Pirates of the Carribbean" theme.

I listened to the theme. It wasn't the same thing as mine, but my song used the same chord progression (although the musical phrase was shorter in mine) - it was enough to create the impression in someone's mind that I had basically ripped the Pirates theme off.

Now, I've never seen a single "Pirates" movie. Might I have seen a trailer e.g. while going to the movie theater to see something else? Might I have heard just the theme? Sure, but I never consciously exposed myself to any of that stuff. Also, the rest of the song apart from that one bit is completely different.

Now, I'd like you to tell me what you think my chances would be if I published it and a big movie studio came after me...

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chk071 wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:44 pm At some point, about any melody imaginable will have been "taken".

I even sometimes have the feeling that all those BZZ BZZ RAA RAA dupstep sounds in modern EDM genres are partly because they don't dare to use melodies anymore, because they always have to fear that it's already been used in other tracks...
I think it just depends on the genre or subgenre of EDM. there is still lots of melodies in EDM. the heavy overused of effects is just a characteristic of the direction of where the genre has gone in.
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killahpl wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:41 pm Now, I've never seen a single "Pirates" movie. Might I have seen a trailer e.g. while going to the movie theater to see something else? Might I have heard just the theme? Sure, but I never consciously exposed myself to any of that stuff. Also, the rest of the song apart from that one bit is completely different.
yeah, you are probably subconsciously influenced by the music you hear in current form in entertainment and mass media such as computer games, movies, movie trailers, tv shows and so on. There is another thread on here where there is a fellow talking about "epic music". it's all the hans zimmer sounding stuff -- not because he's some sort of ground breaking composer -- he's an evolution of work done in hollywood by john williams who has been pummeled forever for stealing from richard wagner. zimmer is just the currently most prevalent because of the tent pole hollywood films use his scores and its most prevalent.

the question you need to search and answer for yourself is, what is this "epic" sounding orchestral music? why does it sound the way it does? what are it's main characteristics? what are the elements of it and what is it that you are using in your own compositions that is making it get lumped in with zimmers stuff.
Last edited by telecode on Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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You seem to think that your thoughts and ideas are really your very own thoughts and ideas, like private property or something. And you are your very own guy thinking your very own thoughts. In technical terms, this is called kataleptike phantasia, the fantasy of grasping at I, me, mine.

That was a top shelf thought of mine and I have lots more like this in my cupboard.

Or just google Narcissus.

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we are all products of our experiences.

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I'm not. 100% genes here. ;)

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telecode wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:59 pm
killahpl wrote: โ†‘Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:41 pm Now, I've never seen a single "Pirates" movie. Might I have seen a trailer e.g. while going to the movie theater to see something else? Might I have heard just the theme? Sure, but I never consciously exposed myself to any of that stuff. Also, the rest of the song apart from that one bit is completely different.
the question you need to search and answer for yourself is, what is this "epic" sounding orchestral music? why does it sound the way it does? what are it's main characteristics? what are the elements of it and what is it that you are using in your own compositions that is making it get lumped in with zimmers stuff.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I guess that's... gulp... easy: what makes it sound like that are the strings, the relatively fast tempo... and perhaps there's certain scales/chords/chord progressions that get used more often than others in that type of music (I find myself defaulting to a lot of G minor/F minor stuff...). All of this produces a certain feeling of "adventure", i.e. I feel like rescuing some hostages from a submarine when I listen to it.

I move around the genres of folk-film music-rock-symphonic metal a lot, so I'm bound to slip into sounding like Zimmer at some point. Now, surely you did not ask that question to imply that I should first figure out what makes Zimmer sound like Zimmer and then do my damndest to stay as far the hell away from that as possible? Because that seems like something that could put me in a lot of dead-end situations: "Oops, can't sound like that because people might think I'm ripping off Hans Zimmer", "Oops, can't sound like that or people'll think I'm stealing from Evanescence" and so on and so forth.

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