How should I understand iii-iv-i7-v progression?

[Functional]

So I'm making a song that is supposed to have a mysterious feeling to it and to me, it means going ham with minor chords, hence I borrowed the iii chord. And to my surprise, it actually works and extremely well. But I don't get why does it actually work: the progression is in minor scale and the iii chord is the tonic chord from the parallel minor of the relative major scale.

Not to mention that the iii actually feels more like the "home chord" rather than the i7 chord. What did I exactly do here?

[fmr]

I'm not sure what chords are you using. When talking about degrees (I, iv, V) we are talking about "tonal functions, not chords, therefore I may end understanding wrong what you are doing.

1. The iii chord in a minor scale is NOT "the tonic chord from the parallel minor of the relative major scale". It is the I degree of the relative major. It is a major chord (unless you are playing it with notes not belonging to the scale). Let's take A minor, for example. The III degree chord is C Major, which is the tonic chord of... C Major - the relative Major tonality of A minor.

So, still assuming A minor, you are playing C Major, D minor, A 7 and E (not sure if you are playibng E Major or E minor, but in A minor it should be E Major). If you are playing E minor, after A 7, you may end with a somehow ambivalent mood, but much closer to C Major than A minor, much because:

1. You played the Tonic chord with a 7;
2. You didn't play the Dominant chord (which in A minor is E Major).

Anyway, starting a piece you want in a minor tonality with the III chord will put you into trouble to establish the proper tonality. No wonder your hear is calling C Major.

[Functional]

I'm not sure what chords are you using. When talking about degrees (I, iv, V) we are talking about "tonal functions, not chords, therefore I may end understanding wrong what you are doing.

1. The iii chord inm a minor scale is NOT the relative

Cmin - Dmin - Amin7 - Emin

So the minor scale is A minor. And C minor does not exist in A major, but it does exist in C minor as the tonic. Hence, the tonic chord of the parallel minor of the relative major.

[fmr]

I'm not sure what chords are you using. When talking about degrees (I, iv, V) we are talking about "tonal functions, not chords, therefore I may end understanding wrong what you are doing.

1. The iii chord inm a minor scale is NOT the relative

Cmin - Dmin - Amin7 - Emin

So the minor scale is A minor. And C minor does not exist in A major, but it does exist in C minor as the tonic. Hence, the tonic chord of the parallel minor of the relative major.

See my complete post above. Playing Amin7 and Emin will not give you A minor like NEVER. And Cmin is NOT a chord from A minor. C Major is. C minor is a distant tonality (three flats), with no relationship to C Major, except for the fact that both start in the same note.

[Functional]

Right, so the Amin7 & Emin cause the ambiguity? Well I'm happy with that. I'll be likely using iii-iv-iii-v progression here as well actually.

But thing is, you can actually borrow chords from parallel keys and there's some nice name to it, like modal interchange or something? So in C Major, the parallel key is the C Minor, with the tonic chord being C minor. But I guess all the more reason why I should just consider this as C major instead.

[fmr]

But thing is, you can actually borrow chords from parallel keys and there's some nice name to it, like modal interchange or something?

You can, but that will create a modal (Major/minor) ambiguity. If that's what you are looking for, fine.

So in C Major, the parallel key is the C Minor, with the tonic chord being C minor. But I guess all the more reason why I should just consider this as C major instead.

Yes, probably thinking in terms of C Major/C minor would be better, the way you are going.

[mystran]

I realise that this might be somewhat unorthodox way of thinking about it (or not, no idea really), but with a bit of imagination one could think of Cmin as Am7b5 with root missing (which is not "in scale" but not really particularly weird either), into sub-dominant, tonic 7 and then dominant. Following this logic, the underlying chord progression is functionally a pretty normal I-IV-I-V with a bit of flavour mixed in with the initial rootless half-dim tonic.

[fmr]

I realise that this might be somewhat unorthodox way of thinking about it (or not, no idea really), but with a bit of imagination one could think of Cmin as Am7b5 with root missing (which is not "in scale" but not really particularly weird either), into sub-dominant, tonic 7 and then dominant. Following this logic, the underlying chord progression is functionally a pretty normal I-IV-I-V with a bit of flavour mixed in with the initial rootless half-dim tonic.

Except that Emin is NOT the dominant chord. That would be E. For a chord to perform the "dominant" role, it has to contain the leading tone, which is not the case with Emin.

Regarding your suggestion "with a bit of imagination, one could think of Cmin as Am7b5 with root missing", I would ask: What are your ears telling you? Do you "really" hear Amin there?

[jancivil]

Why C minor feels more like home to you here can't be sussed just from these names. Except there is no particular reason A minor should either, just given this. The voicing, which would weight it somehow (eg., all parallel would), is there an actual tune this belongs to, et cetera...

There's no real reason to shoehorn this into function as the one post tries to. Why does it work? Well, it doesn't have to be conventional or fit some preconception. It strikes me as naive, and not necessarily that as a pejorative, it can be whatever you like it to be conceptually.

[jancivil]

I should say that Aø7 as i7 is probably a red herring.

[mystran]

Emin is still the V for natural minor A, even though I suppose our ears generally expect the harmonic/melodic E instead. Whether trying to interpret this in the A minor (of any kind) is the right thing to do is another thing, but I'm not convinced there's necessarily a more natural scale to work with unless we look at what is placed on top of the chords.

I did try adding the root A below the Emin in DAW before writing the post and I think it actually asserts the tritone in quite an interesting way, but I feel like we're just enough outside the rules of classic tonality that it's rather difficult to really give a very definite interpretation.

[mystran]

I should say that Aø7 as i7 is probably a red herring.

The thing is, if you want to keep this in A minor, I feel like you have to treat that chord as a substitution for something and the tonic substitution just seems like the "least weird thing" to me... but like I said, I do realise this line of thinking is probably somewhat "unorthodox" for sure.



edit: also my personal opinion is that this chord progression would certainly benefit from some surrounding context to really anchor it to some kind of background tonality.

[surreal]

Nvm

[Functional]

I should say that Aø7 as i7 is probably a red herring.

You're right, it actually is, the G played on a fairly pivotal point but now that I tried directly the 7th with chords, that actually ain't working out so well. In fact, the melody seems to be the most crucial thing here that makes it work altogether

[mystran]

I should say that Aø7 as i7 is probably a red herring.

You're right, it actually is, the G played on a fairly pivotal point but now that I tried directly the 7th with chords, that actually ain't working out so well. In fact, the melody seems to be the most crucial thing here that makes it work altogether

Is it by any means possible that you would either have a modulation going on, or the tonic root is actually somewhere other than A?