Music Theory vs Chord VST

[jay choubwt]

studying

[Hink]

wonder what the original poster decided. something about doing both music theory and chord vst.

well he hasnt posted to KvR since March and hasnt posted in this thread since feb and the first page...which highlights my point about possible accidental public shaming. I was very careful when I chose the words in my post because I dont think anyone is trying to hurt others with this but still these topics get heated and it's easy to miss that we might be offending the original poster (who joined shortly before this thread in this case).

It could also be a windup, trust me I am aware of that but I would rather err on the side of caution because like was pointed out once a thread is started it can be beneficial for others reading it, windup or not (that seriously is a two way street)...sadly these threads often have a theme that unintentionally shames the one wishing to use such software.

We can do better

[Forgotten]

Like you said, this one in particular is difficult to categorize as it’s providing context that puts it here and mentioning tools that put it elsewhere.

I get that there is a use for these tools, but people shouldn’t be attacked for using them if that is their approach to music. Conversely, it’s not going to sit well with anyone who has studied theory to suggest that these tools provide the equivalent to having that knowledge.

Finding a balance and being realistic about what your knowledge or tools represent would help these threads work better.

[harryupbabble]

I don't know about others but I'm just mostly here because my offline computer gets tied up and i'm just killing time.

for me, one half of kvr is a gigglefest but the other half is about useful information. music theory is useful information if one wants to use it. and people don't always stay the same. later on, they might want to use music theory even if they are not interested now. will it be too late?

sometimes I reread old threads and what didn't make sense initially does make sense later on and it's great that they are still there. to me at least, it's not that hard to skip comments that might not be useful at the moment.

[Hink]

Like you said, this one in particular is difficult to categorize as it’s providing context that puts it here and mentioning tools that put it elsewhere.

I get that there is a use for these tools, but people shouldn’t be attacked for using them if that is their approach to music. Conversely, it’s not going to sit well with anyone who has studied theory to suggest that these tools provide the equivalent to having that knowledge.

Finding a balance and being realistic about what your knowledge or tools represent would help these threads work better.

the thing is Mike, if it doesnt sit well with some that's their problem and should not be visited upon others, especially in the form of attacks. We dont need people who feel they are superior chasing away new members. We dont know who is on the other end, this thread proves it...we know nothing about the OP. We were all naive once, sure a lot of us worked hard to learn and hone our skills and I get that, but it's not a reason to treat people poorly.

The balance is a very simple thing as you know (because you're good at it), tact...that's all that is needed.

I do notice for the most part my suggestion for moving these threads and my asking what others think fell on deaf ears. But those deaf ears will not hesitate to berate others in these threads, that is what we need to stop.

[Gamma-UT]

I do notice for the most part my suggestion for moving these threads and my asking what others think fell on deaf ears. But those deaf ears will not hesitate to berate others in these threads, that is what we need to stop.

It may be people don’t have strong opinions on moving these threads. I know I don’t. The “you shouldn’t do that brigade” will probably seek them out wherever they wind up. However, if they went into Production Techniques, I don’t think that would be a major issue.

[Forgotten]

Production Techniques is definitely the place where most of the threads here should go when they don’t actually address theory.

I think part of the problem is that quite a few people come to this thread without knowing what “music theory” actually means, and assume that the “theory” part of it is just a general application of the term.

[Functional]

Like you said, this one in particular is difficult to categorize as it’s providing context that puts it here and mentioning tools that put it elsewhere.

I get that there is a use for these tools, but people shouldn’t be attacked for using them if that is their approach to music. Conversely, it’s not going to sit well with anyone who has studied theory to suggest that these tools provide the equivalent to having that knowledge.

Finding a balance and being realistic about what your knowledge or tools represent would help these threads work better.

the thing is Mike, if it doesnt sit well with some that's their problem and should not be visited upon others, especially in the form of attacks. We dont need people who feel they are superior chasing away new members. We dont know who is on the other end, this thread proves it...we know nothing about the OP. We were all naive once, sure a lot of us worked hard to learn and hone our skills and I get that, but it's not a reason to treat people poorly.

To be fair, we do know something about OP: they worded everything so as if these plugins (such as scaler) are at odds with music theory. And well, that does tell quite a bit about the mindset of a person - plus further perpetuates the myth that these plugins would somehow replace music theory.

In the end, something like this ought to happen really anywhere. Imagine if a new mathematician enters a community built around mathematics asking "Hey guys, what do you think about calculators? Will calculators replace the need to understand any of this stuff that you do for new mathematicians?"

You'd get the same kind of responses. But nobody asks that because... well, it's kind of more obvious why the question is ridiculous. Here it's sadly less obvious, since music theory is surprisingly enough more complicated from the get-go compared to mathematics (because it relies heavily on informal logic and sensory experiences, rather than formal logic with entirely abstract objects)

But shortly to put it: topics like these perpetuate a myth and, well, cause more topics like these. Even if it isn't the intent of OP, having a "Music Theory vs. Chord VST" as the topic will have people reading that and thinking "Oh, so there's a dichotomy between the two?" when in fact there is not, and chord vst's certainly do not replace music theory in any way.

[Forgotten]

In the end, something like this ought to happen really anywhere. Imagine if a new mathematician enters a community built around mathematics asking "Hey guys, what do you think about calculators? Will calculators replace the need to understand any of this stuff that you do for new mathematicians?"

You'd get the same kind of responses. But nobody asks that because... well, it's kind of more obvious why the question is ridiculous.

I don’t find it obvious at all, and I don’t think this thread needs any more straw man arguments to perpetuate the argument.

As Hink said, it’s not easy to determine how to categorize certain questions, so quite honestly I think this thread would be better off if it is laid to rest.

[Hink]

the silence is deafening, obviously those who dominate this forum dont want these threads moved so they will stay here...this forum should be for all levels, not just for those advanced in music theory.

[Forgotten]

I agree that in the case where there is a music theory question at any level then it should stay here, but if it has no theory content at all then it makes sense that it should move (and I’ve noticed that such threads are already being moved from time to time, most often to Production Techniques).

No one should be denied the chance to ask theory questions and be denied an answer because they are only just starting to learn.

IMO many of the issues with threads here come from people who try to argue as if they have a greater understanding of music theory than they actually do. It’s a subject that isn’t as straightforward to learn as many think, and we could all improve the quality of these threads by recognizing our limitations and showing a willingness to admit that there’s always more to learn.

[Hink]

which is another reason they should be moved, however gamma is also right that those people will still seek them out. Another problem is someone might use them for learning purposes and how do we know at first? So where we draw the line becomes another problem.
I think the best thing to do is if it bothers you so much just simply ignore the thread, there is plenty of other threads in this forum to go to. If you feel it ruins music then go in your studio, play, record, compose or whatever, come back out, read the thread, go back in your studio, play, record, compose or whatever, analyze your two sessions to se how much it affected your music

[Hink]

which is another reason they should be moved, however gamma is also right that those people will still seek them out. Another problem is someone might use them for learning purposes and how do we know at first?* So where we draw the line becomes another problem.
I think the best thing to do is if it bothers you so much just simply ignore the thread, there is plenty of other threads in this forum to go to. If you feel it ruins music then go in your studio, play, record, compose or whatever, come back out, read the thread, go back in your studio, play, record, compose or whatever, analyze your two sessions to se how much it affected your music

*EDIT...scenario I dont want to see...someone comes in for theory questions they came up with using such software and they get shit for using the software

[Forgotten]

I think the best thing to do is if it bothers you so much just simply ignore the thread, there is plenty of other threads in this forum to go to.

One thing that does make this forum different is that there are musical conventions that allow people to communicate clearly to each other, and (at least in my case) I don’t like to see people given incorrect information and/or being subjected to someone’s personal theory that ignores conventions.

Obviously most of the rest of the forum involves very subjective areas, but this one is probably the most academic one. Sure there are differing schools of thought, but I think everyone here should refer back to the OP and consider what advice is being sought.

[jancivil]

Ok, this is awkward

I have to be honest, this is a bit clutching at straws...what ifs are very far from productivity and is just making excuses

And later it’s teh axmodental shaming, and We can be better.
Wait, which is it? Lay off certain people or be real?

to be honest, it *is* a lot of making excuses, which is harryupbabble’s way as a matter of course, and in the vein of telecode, being argumentative, uninterested in the experienced answer, and posting if only because the platform is provided for posting.

Now, if the word from the top is basically the forum commercially depends on there being zero risk the new OP will feel diminished by, say a shirty sort of reply to this kind of thing...

I would think that the time spent learnng music theory would surpass the amount of time it would take to listen to random chords and find something that works.

Which, mea culpa...

(The OP has asked the forum, only then to argue... from a position of ignorance. I do not see ignorance as shameful, note well. But it looked to me like, since you know better why ask us?, my fallible human response.)

but if it’s the official position that this is the market for KVR Audio Forums now, as opposed to musicians or people who may have tirelessly worked answering honest questions, I for example can just f**k off, no worries. If OTOH it’s just you, grain of salt, you know.

“scenario I dont want to see...someone comes in for theory questions they came up with using such software and they get shit for using the software”
So, did you see this? Did I miss something? Is this about removal of like posts to Production Techniques?

I’m with Forgotten, let’s examine the OP and that individual’s next post before losing a lot of sleep behind their being alienated.