Music Theory vs Chord VST

[Forgotten]

Lots of practice. But I think that if it had existed, they would have found it interesting, if not put to use.


edit/add:

To take it further, if they did put it to use, what product or tools (other than sample based) would have contributed most to an alternate music history?

Just wondering.

well, had things happened earlier technology wise, id have enjoyed hearing bachs "higher state of consciousness sonata for 303".

Well that's the 'orchestra edit', but don't forget he also arranged the 'original tweakin absinthe ballroom edit'

[datroof]

Lots of practice. But I think that if it had existed, they would have found it interesting, if not put to use.


edit/add:

To take it further, if they did put it to use, what product or tools (other than sample based) would have contributed most to an alternate music history?

Just wondering.

I recently watched a documentary about Stravinsky, where his daughter describes him asking for her to provide 3rd and 4th hands on the piano for passages that were too much for 2 hands. I think Stravinsky could have done some interesting things with a sequencer and a pile of plugins.

[datroof]

'random-ness'.
happy accidents.
I've gotten some really interesting material this way.

Example - this tune contains some software-assisted material. See if you can spot it.

https://soundcloud.com/datroof/escape-f ... ger-island

(I know, mix not good).

[jancivil]

I can make a chord progression or a track with knowledge I have. I can also use for example Chordbot to make that progression and it's alot better than what I'd create without that tool.

So basically I'm trying to say that chord tool is just an extension to something I already know. And I might even learn something while doing it.

i'm going to be perfectly honest here. Your second paragraph doesn't follow what you said in your first,

If you already know it, your work is going to be better than a tool which can't actually think.

[jancivil]

I recently watched a documentary about Stravinsky, where his daughter describes him asking for her to provide 3rd and 4th hands on the piano for passages that were too much for 2 hands. I think Stravinsky could have done some interesting things with a sequencer and a pile of plugins.

Well, I for one eventually made the opposite of an argument against using technology in the larger sense.
It's not the same thing as relying on 'Chord VST' instead of "Music Theory", the original goalpost.

https://youtu.be/VBDr2HmkMMw?t=104

What I described earlier: it's cued to t=104, a minute 44. See the URL. I did a_lot of work on it but the impetus for this was the feedback in one of the delay lines creating this off-time (deliberate 5 in the time of 3, synced) repeating motif just earlier, a track which is far from monophonic fed into Cubase's audio to midi, which is designed for single lines afaict. It totally isn't an accurate transcription but it was fascinating. I will have *never* thought of this motif. Yet, I wrote a two-part invention, and the machine took something of that cross-rhythm and spit that sort of perversion of it out.

[jancivil]

stupid duplication by quote

[jancivil]

due to their centuries of use by the masters of music to compose the classical, romantic and modern repertoire, the ancient Chord Abacus and the Babbage Analytical Engine

Can you please demonstrate in what works either were actually used to compose ("to compose the repertoire" is a ludicrous assertion, it suggests it was used per se) repertoire? One's repertoire is the whole of what one has to present, nota bene.

Chances seem very high that they were merely created as abstractions and an illustration, including cycle of fifths. An Analytical Engine "used to compose the repertoire", you mean like using one's own analytical engine? As to the original goalpost, the Music Abacus (Nono) is doing "Music Theory" and not on a beginner's or even intermediary level.

You appear to be implying people would need "Chord Abacus" (which isn't really a thing btw). Surely you could easily say 'composers used the cycle of fifths'; I'm pretty sure Mozart/Beethoven et al used their own actual ideas for harmony and counterpoint which were tied to their melodic ideas in general.

And the product out of this would be a music theory tool, rather than "Chord VST" vs "Music Theory".

[datroof]

Well, I for one eventually made the opposite of an argument against using technology in the larger sense.
It's not the same thing as relying on 'Chord VST' instead of "Music Theory", the original goalpost.

Yeah, I wandered a little off topic.

https://youtu.be/VBDr2HmkMMw?t=104

What I described earlier: it's cued to t=104, a minute 44. See the URL. I did a_lot of work on it but the impetus for this was the feedback in one of the delay lines creating this off-time (deliberate 5 in the time of 3, synced) repeating motif just earlier, a track which is far from monophonic fed into Cubase's audio to midi, which is designed for single lines afaict. It totally isn't an accurate transcription but it was fascinating. I will have *never* thought of this motif. Yet, I wrote a two-part invention, and the machine took something of that cross-rhythm and spit that sort of perversion of it out.

I like it! And yeah, that's a great example. That little motif reminds me of a short piece that a friend and I wrote a few years ago. Now I'll have to go find it.

[Michael L]

^^^ You are entirely correct @jancivil.
I was responding to the previous ludicrous post, showing (with a bit more ludicrousness tossed in for good measure) that someone actually made a real product (!) that combined the two imaginary ideas (chord abacus & Babbage music engine) in that post. Truth is stranger....

[Forgotten]

^^^ You are entirely correct @jancivil.
I was responding to the previous ludicrous post, showing (with a bit more ludicrousness tossed in for good measure) that someone actually made a real product (!) that combined the two imaginary ideas (chord abacus & Babbage music engine) in that post. Truth is stranger....

Yes, I admit it - I made both of them up...

[Michael L]

On topic though, I find all chord VSTs emotionally unsatisfying. OTOH, I delight in finding melodies (& their scales) that “fit” a harmonically strange prepared piano treatment. That process changes me in ways a plugin cannot.

[Distorted Horizon]

I can make a chord progression or a track with knowledge I have. I can also use for example Chordbot to make that progression and it's alot better than what I'd create without that tool.

So basically I'm trying to say that chord tool is just an extension to something I already know. And I might even learn something while doing it.

i'm going to be perfectly honest here. Your second paragraph doesn't follow what you said in your first,

If you already know it, your work is going to be better than a tool which can't actually think.

My knowledge is limited

[donkey tugger]

My take on this is that I like composition software that lets me set a lot of parameters, including 'random-ness'.

I generally find that some of this;



And this;



will give all the random results one ever requires.

[jancivil]

^^^ You are entirely correct @jancivil.
I was responding to the previous ludicrous post, showing (with a bit more ludicrousness tossed in for good measure) that someone actually made a real product (!) that combined the two imaginary ideas (chord abacus & Babbage music engine) in that post. Truth is stranger....

There is a paper called Music Abacus by Luis Nono. He seems to be talking about something which exists

Conclusions
The Musical Abacus integrates the main concepts in Music Theory, relating them in a logical and
ordered way. It contains the information on harmonics, intervals, keys, scales and chords, both major
and minor. All these concepts are basic in any musical style, such as: classical music, modern music,
Jazz, Latin music, etc. Moreover, in order to use it, users need not know how to read music. The
Musical Abacus has been presented in several Conservatories and musical societies, and it has been
greatly appreciated. In fact, it is currently used in some music schools.

it's music theory
http://www.harmonicwheel.com/publicacion_1.pdf

[jancivil]

'random-ness'.
happy accidents.
I've gotten some really interesting material this way.

Example - this tune contains some software-assisted material. See if you can spot it.

https://soundcloud.com/datroof/escape-f ... ger-island

(I know, mix not good).

very hip

uhhhhmmmm
pitch bend