Why a C6 is not an Am7?

[IncarnateX]

Well, I just tried to point you to a thread where your statement would make a little sense. Is that really picking up the gauntlet? At worst, I tried to kick it to a more suitable location for pick up .

[jancivil]

As far as I'm concerned ignorance is bliss, if it sounds good I don't give a shit how many rules it breaks. Three simple triads (C,F,and G) are responsible for much of popular...

Do you additionally abhor making sense, or detest the idea of having the restraint to not show your ass when you don't understand what you're reading?

There is nowhere in the thread where we are talking about rules. Now, there are a couple of threads recently which do, but the rules are part of obtaining a discipline; and the training it's a part of serves people that might become composers of more serious music than the pablum you are into, and that you strive to make.

Some people in this world want more than C, F, and G.
Some people outgrow wanting what you want early in their experience, and some people never cared at all about it.
You'll not be making the platinum record either so what's the use? If you had some humility (or curiosity) maybe your music would benefit. Where is your reflective capacity, what happened to you?

So the entire sound you're making here is of a proudly ignorant person and the look is of a person with his ass hanging out, with the defiance of a toddler acting out. The failure not only of humility but of self-awareness would be astonishing but for the fact I've seen you act out wildly before in exactly the same fashion.
I'm not sure having a go at a thread in a forum where the whole idea of said forum is something you abhor is really going to be the therapy you need.

This thread started off to be a normal discussion of a not very complicated matter: when would you name these same four notes here by one or another chord symbol. Then it got hairy because someone decided this was their shot at showing off and they stepped in it. Shit happened.

It's hard to imagine what's upsetting to someone that professes no interest in it yet they tell of reading 4 pages of it. Other than you're just flaming people out of rancor. it's honestly sad, but you know what? Our history makes being generous seem useless and somehow feels like a worse idea than being honest and direct.

[Karma_tba]

As far as I'm concerned ignorance is bliss, if it sounds good I don't give a shit how many rules it breaks. Three simple triads (C,F,and G) are responsible for much of popular...

Do you additionally abhor making sense, or detest the idea of having the restraint to not show your ass when you don't understand what you're reading?

There is nowhere in the thread where we are talking about rules. Now, there are a couple of threads recently which do, but the rules are part of obtaining a discipline; and the training it's a part of serves people that might become composers of more serious music than the pablum you are into, and that you strive to make.

Some people in this world want more than C, F, and G.
Some people outgrow wanting what you want early in their experience, and some people never cared at all about it.
You'll not be making the platinum record either so what's the use?

So the entire sound you're making here is of a proudly ignorant person and the look is of a person with his ass hanging out, with the defiance of a toddler acting out. The failure not only of humility but of self-awareness would be astonishing but for the fact I've seen you act out wildly before in exactly the same fashion.
I'm not sure having a go at a thread in a forum where the whole idea of said forum is something you abhor is really going to be the therapy you need.

This thread started off to be a normal discussion of a not very complicated matter: when would you name these same four notes here by one or another chord symbol. Then it got hairy because someone decided this was their shot at showing off and they stepped in it. Shit happened.

It's hard to imagine what's upsetting to someone that professes no interest in it yet they tell of reading 4 pages of it. Other than you're just flaming people out of rancor. it's honestly sad but history makes being generous seem useless and somehow feels like a worse idea than being honest and direct.

blah blah blah!!!!!

[jancivil]

I have no interest in communication

This says it all.

[Karma_tba]

I have no interest in communication

This says it all.

I have no interest in being a musician, a composer, or superstar...but ego tripping elitist wonks tend to ruffle my feathers. Y'all could have enlightened the OP without demeaning him/her. The KVR clique never resists the chance to throw shade. Big fish in a small pond is the KVR way.

[jancivil]

I'm not sure why I bothered to read the four pages of this post, because like the average listener I neither understand or care about music theory. As far as I'm concerned ignorance is bliss, if it sounds good I don't give a shit how many rules it breaks. Three simple triads (C,F,and G) are responsible for much of popular music. I rather be Muddy Waters than Mozart. I guess I should be envious,but I feel more pity, maybe y"all are musically correct, but it comes off more clinical than passionate. Unleash your wrath on me but it is wasted.

"The average listener" as the arbiter for everything is the hill you choose to die on, is it?

Why would anyone be interested in the envy of a person with such a limited scope, let alone of someone that can't manage to know where they are in discourse?

Nah, you want to generate some heat, pure flames: 'unleash your wrath on me'.
Well... anyone that argues against knowledge earns my contempt, even as, like here, it's not a matter of any gravity at all.

The excuse for picking a fight could have been anything.

'you miss my point'; there is no point. The smokescreen is pointless as well.

The four-note chord in question could be part of ice-cream changes.
I vi ii6/5 V7, I.

So Am7 in first inversion is quite like C6; it's the same <subdominant> function so what's the difference?
I like knowing, I liked knowing when I started out, it's a function of curiosity.
Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful!



But there are cases where it might be fun to think about it like it's two different things.
Ignorance seems like darkness to me, and it doesn't look like <karma to be announced> is having that much fun today. I think that shit looks like bad karma trying to happen tbh.

[Karma_tba]

N E Patriots beat K C Chiefs 43 ...40

[Karma_tba]

I'm not sure why I bothered to read the four pages of this post, because like the average listener I neither understand or care about music theory. As far as I'm concerned ignorance is bliss, if it sounds good I don't give a shit how many rules it breaks. Three simple triads (C,F,and G) are responsible for much of popular music. I rather be Muddy Waters than Mozart. I guess I should be envious,but I feel more pity, maybe y"all are musically correct, but it comes off more clinical than passionate. Unleash your wrath on me but it is wasted.

"The average listener" as the arbiter for everything is the hill you choose to die on, is it?

Why would anyone be interested in the envy of a person with such a limited scope, let alone of someone that can't manage to know where they are in discourse?

Nah, you want to generate some heat, pure flames: 'unleash your wrath on me'.
Well... anyone that argues against knowledge earns my contempt, even as, like here, it's not a matter of any gravity at all.

The excuse for picking a fight could have been anything.

'you miss my point'; there is no point. The smokescreen is pointless as well.

The four-note chord in question could be part of ice-cream changes.
I vi ii6/5 V7, I.
Wah wah wah!!!
So Am7 in first inversion is quite like C6; it's the same <subdominant> function so what's the difference?
I like knowing, I liked knowing when I started out, it's a function of curiosity.
Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful!



But there are cases where it might be fun to think about it like it's two different things.
Ignorance seems like darkness to me, and it doesn't look like <karma to be announced> is having that much fun today. I think that shit looks like bad karma trying to happen tbh.

Wah wah wah!!!

[Karma_tba]

TBA = The Black Albino!!!! Get a clue!

[Karma_tba]

What goes round comes round= Karma!!

[jancivil]

Knock yourself out.

Here's what restraint looks like, right here.

[IncarnateX]

Anyway, to recap my own points for the sake of keeping the topic on track. Whether we are dealing with a C add 6 chord or Am7, I would decide by function of cadence. If we are in Em, I see no reason to name it other than Am7, because it is basically an invertet subdominant variant. In C major, I see no reason to name it other than C add 6 because it is a tonic variant and cannot take subdominant function (because it lacks F to be considered a Fmaj7 add9) and cannot take dominant function of an augmented G major either (because it would lack the third). This priority would accordingly change with favored cadence, e.g. Jazz cadences, but the principle of naming as close to (favored) functions within a given key would apply.

This analysis with precaution for the fact that I am basically a counterpoint fan and not exactly dedicated to chords. I am not going to pretend that I have full overview in this regard. There may be some problems arising according to particular progressions, but I would go for the cadence principle as far as I could.

[jancivil]

In C major even with a C bass I have a preference for calling it vi6/5 in tonal or CCP-oriented music. And that is certainly nothing to do with being a fan of block chords or even someone who today writes with chord names in mind in my own music, being a linear writer. No, it's based in my intensive experience with part-writing in the Common Practice Paradigm. This is illustrated by the common usage of the term '6 chord' and its agreement with the premise.

But then there is music where add6 is stylistic, jazz of a certain period (before bebop, in very general terms).
Pop music usage may agree with that or it may not.

That said I don't think it's a very crucial distinction really at all. vi is a substitute I so why not.
If it's key of G major, it's ii6 or it's IV. Subdominant, both = same difference.

So it may be useful conveying something of the idea to another musician, or they may not see it anyway.

I came up with a concrete use based in my assertion of the particular voicing as C add6. I wanted to argue that for the purpose of my progression (which I came up with to counter the notion that key meant something in every case) Am7 doesn't work. Then I found that it doesn't make any real difference to me.

E C G A [C add6];
Eb C G A [Cm add6];
D C G A [D7 sus4];
Db C G A [Db^7#5 sus#4];

Db Cb Gb Ab [Db7 sus4];
Db Cb F G [Db7b5];
Gb Bb F Ab [Gb^7].

So the first two chords could be ii7 and ii7b5 [Am7, Am7b5] of G even on the way to Gb.
G isn't a solid key which was my premise for purposes of argument but in the end it doesn't make any argument for a difference.
so FAIL.


HOWEVER the first assertion where it's the guitar shape E A C, that's an A minor chord to me (the note G notwithstanding) and I will stand by the assertion its acoustical properties are the reveal here.

[jancivil]

With A bass in the key of A minor, probably an Am7, I would say.

Except for i7 is pretty much pop music as appropriated from jazz at least in sound.

If you saw I add6 in Bach it would be a result of the part-writing, not an end in itself as a harmony, methinks.

[excuse me please]

To make a long story short: depends on the root note.
E-G-A-C could be perceived as an Em sus4 #5 chord. As G-A-C-E could be perceived as a G 6/9 sus 4 chord. Especially when the root note is about an octave lower.

More like making a short story into a very confusing epic full of narrative inconsistencies and plot flaws! :0)

What on earth are you going on about?

E-G-A-C could be perceived as an Em sus4 #5 chord. = utter nonsense to anyone who actually knows even a little bit about music.

G-A-C-E could be perceived as a G 6/9 sus 4 chord. = someone trying to be clever and messing up big time!

All you are doing is potentially confusing the OP + showing the many experienced and highly trained musicians on this forum that you have very little knowledge...

That's fine, nothing wrong there, but why jump in on a topic when you clearly don't actually understand the subject very well?

Oh dear.. I think we just found 'the expert.' Stop the presses!