Hello again, my friends
How would you connect a IV-V in root position with A-B in the soprano (key: C Maj).
I've been trying several voicings (including doubling the 3rd) but it creates new problems ahead.
Thank you
Question on voice leading-practical question
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
Without knowing what comes before or after, that's tricky to answer...lots of possibilities depending on the context.
You say: Chords IV - V in root position...
Could this instead be chords II first inversion - V?
That might solve some issues with the overall context?
You say: Chords IV - V in root position...
Could this instead be chords II first inversion - V?
That might solve some issues with the overall context?
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- KVRian
- 969 posts since 6 Jul, 2009
So, root position IV-V, with A - B in the Soprano. This means the bass and soprano are moving in parallel.
Knowing that, and assuming strict voice-leading and doubling guidelines for exercise purposes... if the tenor and alto were to move in the same direction as the soprano and bass, they will form parallel 5ths and 8ves with the bass, which need to be avoided. You also can't double the third, especially in the case of the V chord, where the third is the 7th scale degree/leading tone. So, the solution here is that the inner voices must move in contrary motion, and this will have to be by leap.
From Bass to Soprano, the voicing would be...
IV: F C F A
V: G G D B
...where the Tenor leaps downward by fourth from C to G, and where the alto leaps from F to D. You might protest "but isn't that direct 5ths between tenor and alto???" to which the answer is "these are inner voice, where this movement is less objectionable in general, and where it is also a forced solution to avoid parallel 5ths/8ves with the outer voices which must be avoided as a much higher priority." The parallel movement between the bass and and soprano in chords only a 2nd apart by root force this solution.
If in the context of less strict doublings, then it is possible to double the third in the IV chord in the tenor, and then to resolve again by contrary motion:
IV: F A F A
V: G G D B
This might happen in a real piece of music where the smoothness of the tenor line is a consideration. But for exercise purposes, the first solution I showed you is preferable.
Knowing that, and assuming strict voice-leading and doubling guidelines for exercise purposes... if the tenor and alto were to move in the same direction as the soprano and bass, they will form parallel 5ths and 8ves with the bass, which need to be avoided. You also can't double the third, especially in the case of the V chord, where the third is the 7th scale degree/leading tone. So, the solution here is that the inner voices must move in contrary motion, and this will have to be by leap.
From Bass to Soprano, the voicing would be...
IV: F C F A
V: G G D B
...where the Tenor leaps downward by fourth from C to G, and where the alto leaps from F to D. You might protest "but isn't that direct 5ths between tenor and alto???" to which the answer is "these are inner voice, where this movement is less objectionable in general, and where it is also a forced solution to avoid parallel 5ths/8ves with the outer voices which must be avoided as a much higher priority." The parallel movement between the bass and and soprano in chords only a 2nd apart by root force this solution.
If in the context of less strict doublings, then it is possible to double the third in the IV chord in the tenor, and then to resolve again by contrary motion:
IV: F A F A
V: G G D B
This might happen in a real piece of music where the smoothness of the tenor line is a consideration. But for exercise purposes, the first solution I showed you is preferable.
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
For an exercise, where I assume that C is the final note in the Soprano, this is the best solution, but there are others...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 467 posts since 6 Feb, 2005 from Portugal
Thanks for the replies. They helped a lot.
One more question...what about parallel 5ths/8ves between Bass and Tenor or Alto? Can their importance also be minimized as direct 5ths?
One more question...what about parallel 5ths/8ves between Bass and Tenor or Alto? Can their importance also be minimized as direct 5ths?
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- KVRian
- 969 posts since 6 Jul, 2009
No. The bass is the voice least forgiving of parallel or direct 5ths and 8ves. In certain edge cases you've yet to encounter, it will be permissible for direct 5ths between an inner voice (tenor or alto) and the soprano. But between the bass, pretty much never -- there is always a better solution than parallel/direct 5ths or 8ves with the bass.rbarata wrote:Thanks for the replies. They helped a lot.
One more question...what about parallel 5ths/8ves between Bass and Tenor or Alto? Can their importance also be minimized as direct 5ths?
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- KVRAF
- 25052 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I would caution against absolutism derived as though strictly from textbook statements.
One is supposed to use these things in music one day, or so I would suppose. Then we find that part-writing is contextual and consideration given to 'is this the more musical solution to a problem?' instead of blanket statements: "always", as seen here.
Is a cadence an "edge case"; is slightly more involved part-writing such as say, this: one o' these edge cases?
the perp's name is JS Bach
One is supposed to use these things in music one day, or so I would suppose. Then we find that part-writing is contextual and consideration given to 'is this the more musical solution to a problem?' instead of blanket statements: "always", as seen here.
Is a cadence an "edge case"; is slightly more involved part-writing such as say, this: one o' these edge cases?
the perp's name is JS Bach
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