I know that's a sort of old school sequencer / controller thingamajig...is that the one they brought out with CV connectivity as well as all the usual USB / MIDI stuff?IncarnateX wrote:Beatstep pro
What one bit of Music Theory was really helpful that caused your songwriting to improve ?
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
It is actually not that old school but you are right about the connectivity. However, the real cool thing and reason for I bought it is its probability and randomness control pr. track (one drum track, two monosynth track). It is going to do semi structured music a long with Korg Karma and its autovariations and Analog keys with its probability control pr. step. Can’t wait to get it up running. Almost done. Just have to clean up my cable mess with some clips and @Harryupbabble, here we come....hopefully. 
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
Just had a look...really interesting piece of kit...does a helluva lot for the money!IncarnateX wrote:It is actually not that old school but you are right about the connectivity. However, the real cool thing and reason for I bought it is its probability and randomness control pr. track (one drum track, two monosynth track). It is going to do semi structured music a long with Korg Karma and its autovariations and Analog keys with its probability control pr. step. Can’t wait to get it up running. Almost done. Just have to clean up my cable mess with some clips and @Harryupbabble, here we come....hopefully.
Korg Karma - does that have a sequencer built in as well then?
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Yes it does but that is an old outdated one with floppy drive and not its strength. Karma is basically a Triton Workstation without sample ability but with a very powerful arp that introduces several midi variations to your phrases such as rhythm, velocity, gate time, envelope, pan and sometimes notes as well. You can let Karma control up to four arps at once, with different instruments, including drum patterns. In principle, you can use it as an advanced autoarranger keyboard or just let it make its autovariations over selected voices like I will do.
Should we relate my ambitions to thread topic one could say that this is a theoretical paradigm shift for me, where I have to go from making music in "absolute particulars", control over every note and rhythm, and into "frames" or "contexts" under which the machines will be granted some musical autonomy in true man-machine interaction and not just a man-over-machine relation. Just like the rest of our generative KVR composers do, though I am not really aiming for a generative sound, just to break loose from my rigid structures to some extent. That was my only bane of studying music theory: Music did became rather organized and I never found back to the spontane and sometimes lovely chaos of my pre-schooled music. I have missed that component even since, though in lesser doses than then. Now the machines are going to help me back. Thus, at the end of the day, you will hear nothing but praise of music theory and music tech too from me. To an untalent like me, theory was and is the key and it is all or nothing. I am not going to get anywhere without it and I do not want to forget about to an extent where it cannot be recollected.
Should we relate my ambitions to thread topic one could say that this is a theoretical paradigm shift for me, where I have to go from making music in "absolute particulars", control over every note and rhythm, and into "frames" or "contexts" under which the machines will be granted some musical autonomy in true man-machine interaction and not just a man-over-machine relation. Just like the rest of our generative KVR composers do, though I am not really aiming for a generative sound, just to break loose from my rigid structures to some extent. That was my only bane of studying music theory: Music did became rather organized and I never found back to the spontane and sometimes lovely chaos of my pre-schooled music. I have missed that component even since, though in lesser doses than then. Now the machines are going to help me back. Thus, at the end of the day, you will hear nothing but praise of music theory and music tech too from me. To an untalent like me, theory was and is the key and it is all or nothing. I am not going to get anywhere without it and I do not want to forget about to an extent where it cannot be recollected.
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- KVRAF
- 5678 posts since 25 Dec, 2004
it's improved!?
thanks, yeah dunno.
my new shoes maybe?
thanks, yeah dunno.
my new shoes maybe?
sketches... http://soundcloud.com/onesnzeros
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
some artists i support... https://bandcamp.com/spectraselecta
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
sqigls wrote:it's improved!?
thanks, yeah dunno.
my new shoes maybe?
Aah, magic shoes...couldn't live without them! :0)
I have a life-changing story there from my youth, but for another forum..something more sporty!
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
I went though a period a few years ago of experimenting with fully generative music and then 100% rejected it....just wasn't me at all! :0)IncarnateX wrote: I am not really aiming for a generative sound
That I can fully understand and still use from time to time...it's an interesting scenario with the balance constantly ebbing and flowing!IncarnateX wrote:The machines will be granted some musical autonomy in true man-machine interaction
All composers should do that from time to time...very useful...I need to do it very soon as I'm starting to get bogged down in middle of the road media-fed, orchestral music!IncarnateX wrote:just to break loose from my rigid structures to some extent.
I get that and, to some extent, I've gone through it from time to time as my music theory knowledge and experience gradually widened and deepened. Eventually, though, I've found the well of knowledge ( sorry that sounds pretentious) to be freeing in itself as long as I just consciously access it when needed...maybe I've learned to 'tuck it away' somewhere at times so that it doesn't get in the way?IncarnateX wrote:That was my only bane of studying music theory: Music did became rather organized and I never found back to the spontane and sometimes lovely chaos of my pre-schooled music.
More often than not nowadays I start composing by simply doodling at the piano, (often with my eyes closed) just listening to what happens...I have the electric piano in record mode so that every little fragment is saved...I listen back after 10 minutes or so of experimentation....pluck out an idea or two and try and twist them further...and so on...eventually heading off to my studio if something takes hold...or going to make a cup of tea if nothing grabs me! :0)
You know, I'm going to doodle now and see what I can create....sorry that sounds slightly weird! :0)
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I didn't acquire anything in school to get in my way.
I ignored species counterpoint utterly;
I didn't take composition lessons from anybody.
During my most formative years, I improvised freely with someone that lived in the same flat as me. Almost every day for a time. The idea was to make something in real time that was a keeper and a composition. Yes, we failed a lot. But another thing I learned doing that is you record everything and delete the rubbish later if you ran out of tape. Yes, tape. This was shortly after my SFCM semester where I did little other than fool around with tape. I benefited hugely from HIS education. He's a keyboard player and I was a lead guitar player so it was largely harmony and melody brought by two individuals. With some similarity and some real differences in approach.
I'm so glad I made those two choices. These are not for everyone, if for anyone else. Everyone is an individual.
But improvising all the time meant dealing with form in a different way than with paper and an eraser, with the time to decide against and the time to kid yourself.
So at the DAW there is nothing that isn't recorded, pencil tool or record in some MIDI from a controller, it's recorded. But if it's audio you're recording, record everything. You don't have to be super-prepared or feeling hot. But if you are, f**king lose the inhibition and hit the red button!
I ignored species counterpoint utterly;
I didn't take composition lessons from anybody.
During my most formative years, I improvised freely with someone that lived in the same flat as me. Almost every day for a time. The idea was to make something in real time that was a keeper and a composition. Yes, we failed a lot. But another thing I learned doing that is you record everything and delete the rubbish later if you ran out of tape. Yes, tape. This was shortly after my SFCM semester where I did little other than fool around with tape. I benefited hugely from HIS education. He's a keyboard player and I was a lead guitar player so it was largely harmony and melody brought by two individuals. With some similarity and some real differences in approach.
I'm so glad I made those two choices. These are not for everyone, if for anyone else. Everyone is an individual.
But improvising all the time meant dealing with form in a different way than with paper and an eraser, with the time to decide against and the time to kid yourself.
So at the DAW there is nothing that isn't recorded, pencil tool or record in some MIDI from a controller, it's recorded. But if it's audio you're recording, record everything. You don't have to be super-prepared or feeling hot. But if you are, f**king lose the inhibition and hit the red button!
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
I wish I had! :0)jancivil wrote:I ignored species counterpoint utterly
It was useful in some ways, maybe...but overall I think it might've had a serious negative impact on my approach to composition if I hadn't decided to take it all with a pinch of salt! Passed the seriously bizarre exam in it and then tucked it way down deep in my mind and mainly f**king ignored it!
I've been teaching composition now for nearly 30 years and I have very mixed feelings about the rigidity of the systems we have around it all...not that I stick to them anyway...if I did I would let so many of my students down! Some need a lot of permanent scaffolding; others just need very occasional 'light touch' interventions.jancivil wrote:I didn't take composition lessons from anybody.
For me it's utterly essential...freeing and unrestricted...chance to go in unexpected directions!jancivil wrote:But improvising all the time meant dealing with form in a different way
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
One early lesson for life regarding theory: After a year of studying, my auto-didact companion once played me a guitar chord progression that ended in a heavily augmented chord despite from proceeding from a simple triad and I said “you cannot do that” with the rules of choral harmonization in my backhead. He just stopped, starred at me with big open eyes and said “I just did” and then we both had one hell of a laugh: Wtf was I talking about?
From that point, rules became tools to me, however great tools indeed. If rules ever were meant to be broken in the end, I’d say it would be the rules of music. Who want to restrict their creative freedom unless they have to for passing an exam or want to write in the styles of their heroes?
From that point, rules became tools to me, however great tools indeed. If rules ever were meant to be broken in the end, I’d say it would be the rules of music. Who want to restrict their creative freedom unless they have to for passing an exam or want to write in the styles of their heroes?
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
No argument from me on that one! :0)IncarnateX wrote:Who want to restrict their creative freedom unless they have to for passing an exam...
And this is what I created...haven't actually analysed it as such yet...just played it and thought it worked! :0) Not for every taste of course....tad dissonant at times!ChamMusic wrote:You know, I'm going to doodle now and see what I can create...
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=511346
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Particularly with other people, who zig where you woulda zagged. I was going to work with this individual recently, but he got rid of his software so the remote session couldn't happen. So I 'did' him in the piece and it turned out that I had that by osmosis.ChamMusic wrote:For me it's utterly essential...freeing and unrestricted...chance to go in unexpected directions!jancivil wrote:But improvising all the time meant dealing with form in a different way
Electronic Music Lab was a composition thing, with Alden Jenks. If youse do not know him, google him. Anyway he entirely left me alone except for this: he walked in once and asked to hear what I was doing: "Lot of energy here. Now subtract from it."
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
Yes...his music can be quite restrained from what I've just been listening to...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=510li-MmLSE
Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=510li-MmLSE
Interesting.
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- KVRian
- 893 posts since 12 Jun, 2006
That approach is something I have used...and still do use from time to time...I can see the point of it and I find it satisfying as a composer as well.woggle wrote:generative processes are used to provide material which is then heavily (or not so heavily) edited to produce a final result.
I had a lot of colleagues, a few years ago, who became obsessed with 100% generative processes of various sorts and I felt that they were too passive in the process - they didn't seem to be actively thinking at any stage...even with regard to tweaking what was actually generated at the very beginning.
That's GOT to be the way to do 'generative' for me...in some ways, the process is then quite similar to more traditional methods...just the tools have changed!woggle wrote:one should have a pretty good notion of what is going to be generated so that selection is usefully constrained (as per my Mompou variations)
