AKA New Jack Swing; The punchy, grooving, and extremely catchy genre that Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley were known for in the early 90s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhXhy_pcg8I
For being incredibly popular at one point, it's damn near impossible to find material written for people interested in making more of it.
Any tips on replicating its most noticeable features? Any chord progressions that make for safe bets? How do I make decent orchestra hits? Why doesn't simply compressing the hell out of my snares make them sound quite like that? What's the trick to writing a bassline that can walk all over the place without going muddy or distracting from the melody?
Swingbeat; How do I do it?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 10 posts since 1 Jan, 2013
Oh wow, neat!MannB wrote:Hi there! I really like that genre too and also helped with some demo productions back in the days. You should narrow down your questions a bit, maybe I can help.
Given the opportunity now I'm not sure what to ask. I suppose the thing I have the most trouble with is the distinctively angular bass lines. I understand the idea of walking some notes around the root of a chord, but whenever I try to do that it either comes out overly wooden or overly chromatic and weird against the melody, depending on how much I restrict its movement. My terminology is really weak so I have some difficulty explaining this. Do you have a mental flowchart you go through when trying to make a bass line more mobile without letting it conflict with the higher voices, or sounding like "more notes just for the sake of more notes"?
"Operating the FM8 on Mac or Windows machines is identical, with some slight differences"
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- KVRAF
- 10077 posts since 2 Jan, 2005 from somewhere in the woods
"It dreamed itself along"
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- KVRian
- 588 posts since 3 Oct, 2011
The bassline doesn't sound too crazy to me. Can you post an example of what you're doing with the bassline?SFtheWolf wrote: Given the opportunity now I'm not sure what to ask. I suppose the thing I have the most trouble with is the distinctively angular bass lines. I understand the idea of walking some notes around the root of a chord, but whenever I try to do that it either comes out overly wooden or overly chromatic and weird against the melody, depending on how much I restrict its movement. My terminology is really weak so I have some difficulty explaining this. Do you have a mental flowchart you go through when trying to make a bass line more mobile without letting it conflict with the higher voices, or sounding like "more notes just for the sake of more notes"?
Have you tried looking at stuff like this?
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- KVRAF
- 4584 posts since 21 Sep, 2005
Before you start messing about with the finer points of that production style, make sure you are versed in the variations of quantisation that this style involves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp1-RbnMR7U
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See how the most useful 'jackin' positions on the 16 Triplet Grid are actually the same as heavy 16 swing.
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It helps if you have a 'high-end' program like Cubase or Studio One that adaptively alter the grid as you go between the triplets and the heavy swing.
Nothing can explain it better than seeing it with your own eyes, as it applies to your beat.
Anyway, watch the video and check out the others in the series by 'musicprotutorials' - he really is an exceptionally talented teacher and a very well respected lecturer.
Apologies if you knew all this. But it is surprising how so many people that make beats do not know the knowledge imparted here. Listen, learn.
cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp1-RbnMR7U
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See how the most useful 'jackin' positions on the 16 Triplet Grid are actually the same as heavy 16 swing.
---------------------
It helps if you have a 'high-end' program like Cubase or Studio One that adaptively alter the grid as you go between the triplets and the heavy swing.
Nothing can explain it better than seeing it with your own eyes, as it applies to your beat.
Anyway, watch the video and check out the others in the series by 'musicprotutorials' - he really is an exceptionally talented teacher and a very well respected lecturer.
Apologies if you knew all this. But it is surprising how so many people that make beats do not know the knowledge imparted here. Listen, learn.
cheers.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
well, the thing that makes that Bobby Brown track specifically happen is the drummer is specifically happening.
if you think you're going to get that with tweaking a machine you might fool yourself if you don't have a lot of sensibility for that thing but that is very live human music that was arrived at by musicians that worked hard a lot of years at it. If you think the quantization video is happening like that drummer I shouldn't waste too many words. but a number of people browse this that don't comment so here:
'grids' do not breathe; the utter predictability of sticking to a grid is going to show compared to people that are happening. if you want an exercise, take the audio of a track such as that and make the timeline in Cubase conform to it strictly. real funk and swing is not that easily quantifiable, it pushes and pulls too much. if you're going to make beats, make them. There is so much more to this than that guy's numbers and facile concepts. It ought to be obvious to hear.
if you think you're going to get that with tweaking a machine you might fool yourself if you don't have a lot of sensibility for that thing but that is very live human music that was arrived at by musicians that worked hard a lot of years at it. If you think the quantization video is happening like that drummer I shouldn't waste too many words. but a number of people browse this that don't comment so here:
'grids' do not breathe; the utter predictability of sticking to a grid is going to show compared to people that are happening. if you want an exercise, take the audio of a track such as that and make the timeline in Cubase conform to it strictly. real funk and swing is not that easily quantifiable, it pushes and pulls too much. if you're going to make beats, make them. There is so much more to this than that guy's numbers and facile concepts. It ought to be obvious to hear.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Whatever. If someone thinks 'programming' that (if that is the case) from the [non-]vantage point of not being a drummer, just set a swing grid and trial and you're done, good luck with that.
Bobby Brown 1989, we're talking about LA Reid. Drummer. End of story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.A._Reid
Typical for Producah people to want rhythm as a production question, in lieu of being a drumming question.
Bobby Brown got good people to lean on, like LA Reid for this stuff.
I stand by my point.
Really, you dropped in here from the aether to necro a thing from 6 yrs ago for this?
Bobby Brown 1989, we're talking about LA Reid. Drummer. End of story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.A._Reid
Typical for Producah people to want rhythm as a production question, in lieu of being a drumming question.
Bobby Brown got good people to lean on, like LA Reid for this stuff.
I stand by my point.
Really, you dropped in here from the aether to necro a thing from 6 yrs ago for this?
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
lol. Yes, 16th note swing 100% is the same as 16th note triplets.codec_spurt wrote: ↑Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:21 pm the finer points of that production style, make sure you are versed in the variations of quantisation that this style involves:
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See how the most useful 'jackin' positions on the 16 Triplet Grid are actually the same as heavy 16 swing.
---------------------
Thank_you Captain Obvious. Such a massive talent you'd need to... RTFM.
LMAO
That video = antithesis of swinging. Jackin', mebbe so.
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- KVRist
- 397 posts since 3 Feb, 2017
jancivil wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 am well, the thing that makes that Bobby Brown track specifically happen is the drummer is specifically happening.
if you think you're going to get that with tweaking a machine you might fool yourself if you don't have a lot of sensibility for that thing but that is very live human music that was arrived at by musicians that worked hard a lot of years at it. If you think the quantization video is happening like that drummer I shouldn't waste too many words. but a number of people browse this that don't comment so here:
'grids' do not breathe; the utter predictability of sticking to a grid is going to show compared to people that are happening. if you want an exercise, take the audio of a track such as that and make the timeline in Cubase conform to it strictly. real funk and swing is not that easily quantifiable, it pushes and pulls too much. if you're going to make beats, make them. There is so much more to this than that guy's numbers and facile concepts. It ought to be obvious to hear.
Pure Nonsense. You clearly don't know the style.
It's all about samples and layers and layers of them.
Breakbeats and individual kicks and snares al layered.
If you listen to the last part of this then you hear a lot of the elements that made this beat and
this is how most of his productions were done around that time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdCp_j8Wyuw
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- Banned
- 3946 posts since 25 Jan, 2009
Are going to tell us it is not part of the style to have loops from drummers playing real drum sets and use them for e.g. Break Beats? Far from all your hear in this style are programmed quantifications. Afaik both individual drum hits and loops apply to “samples” whether they are layered or not, so there is no real argument up there ^^^^ that would qualify your “nonsense” outburst. However, I am sure there will be further comments to this when Jan returnschristian f. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:14 am Pure Nonsense. You clearly don't know the style.
It's all about samples and layers and layers of them.
Breakbeats
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
"You clearly don't know the style.
It's all about samples and layers and layers of them.
Breakbeats"
You clearly know nothing about rhythm if this is supposed to argue against my points, let alone make them "nonsense".
If it IS in fact samples: who made them?
Do samples or loops make themselves?
Did they know from drumming? Because what I hear in the track in the Original Post of thread is down to <a drummer>. And, since 1989 Bobby Brown ≊ LA Reid, who came up as a drummer, I would tend to place the style there; because facts.
It's all about samples and layers and layers of them.
Breakbeats"
You clearly know nothing about rhythm if this is supposed to argue against my points, let alone make them "nonsense".
If it IS in fact samples: who made them?
Do samples or loops make themselves?
Did they know from drumming? Because what I hear in the track in the Original Post of thread is down to <a drummer>. And, since 1989 Bobby Brown ≊ LA Reid, who came up as a drummer, I would tend to place the style there; because facts.
Last edited by jancivil on Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2752 posts since 15 Feb, 2017 from a worn out vinyl groove
jancivil wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 am
'grids' do not breathe; the utter predictability of sticking to a grid is going to show compared to people that are happening. if you want an exercise, take the audio of a track such as that and make the timeline in Cubase conform to it strictly. real funk and swing is not that easily quantifiable, it pushes and pulls too much. if you're going to make beats, make them. There is so much more to this than that guy's numbers and facile concepts. It ought to be obvious to hear.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Seriously, unless one is horribly developmentally challenged, one perceives the result in the 16th triplet grid video as just a stiff. It is by definition robotic, the antithesis of swinging. If you want to use Cubase well, find a drummer who is really grooving, import that audio and make beats on the timeline conform to where they happen in the audio.
You can effect 'feel' somewhat thru accents and the tone of yer choices of drums but as an answer to how it's done, that is woefully inadequate.
You can effect 'feel' somewhat thru accents and the tone of yer choices of drums but as an answer to how it's done, that is woefully inadequate.
Last edited by jancivil on Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
