SynthMaster vs Waves Codex Wavetable Synth or Propellerheads Europa (Wavetable modulation)

[Compyfox]

Quick question for Bülent. (or anyone else that is a SynthMaster wizard)

You're probably aware of Waves' Codex Wavetable Synth. See:
https://www.waves.com/plugins/codex


I wanted to ask, if SynthMaster's Wavetable features are capable of pulling of similar stuff as Waves offers with the Start/End and Mid Position feature. Basically, what I want to do, is load a WAV file as Wavetable (ideally via drag and drop), and then modulate it like in Waves Codex - effectively making it obsolete to buy Waves Codex to begin with.

See:
https://youtu.be/QA_Exa_B_Fs


Maybe even something that Andrew Huang did with Propellerheads Europa (which is really cool, btw!)
https://youtu.be/iF1spPcahSg


Doesn't matter if SynthMaster 2.9 or SynthMaster One. I just don't want to shell out money if I'm basically blinded by all the features and SynthMaster already offers me the same modulation capabilities.

Thanks for answering

[Niowiad]

Far from being a synthmaster or wavetable wizard, maybe if someone else answers I'll probably learn something myself. Anyway...

I have Codex (and never really use it). The Start-Mid-End faders are a nice concept but really they do nothing more - and surely something less - than what you could do by modulating the Index knob (from Synthmaster's oscillator tab in wavetable mode) with an ADSR/MSEG/LFO.

I don't have Europa and I saw the video, it seems like he's sweeping through the wavetable and taking benefit of some specific features which directly mangle the wavetable itself with the two modifiers. Nothing groundbreaking in that video but I have no idea of what the other modifiers can do for altering/editing. It seems like a nice synth.

Wavetable editing capabilities is probably what sets wavetable synths apart.
I know Serum (or Icarus) goes very deep with editing, it divides a wavetable in 256 steps, which can be individually modified.
Synthmaster2 is very basic in wavetable mode. You can do drag-and-drop, sweep through the wavetable position just fine with the Index knob, but the editing is basically non-existent.
Synthmaster3 is supposed to add many options for wavetable editing and be very powerful.

It depends on what you need to do. Editing is great but not "compulsory".

[Compyfox]

Interesting... So in the end, it boils down to just modulating the Index position.

However, I think what makes "CODEX" a bit more advanced here, is that it acts as half a sampler where you can set the start and end point, even a loop point (with the index position) and speed.

"Europa" on the other hand feels like a regular Wavetable synth where you only have an Index/Wavetable position to trigger (and modulate via LFO), and a very aggressive filter. And theoretically, SynthMaster already covers that and then some.


I'm curious what others say about this. Especially Bülent.

[Niowiad]

However, I think what makes "CODEX" a bit more advanced here, is that it acts as half a sampler where you can set the start and end point, even a loop point (with the index position) and speed.

I'll just write this last thing as I don't want to annoy you

Putting aside any legitimate and subjective preference in the two sound engines, resynthesis quality and whatnot... as long as we're only talking about Codex's Start/End faders, it's merely a more immediate and visually appealing way of moving the wavetable position, but surely less advanced than what Synthmaster could do for wavetable position using ADSR/MSEG/LFO as modulators for Index.

Manually moving Synthmaster's Index knob is the same as manually moving Codex's START fader when SPEED set to zero.

When instead it comes to having wavetable position "moving on its own", Codex simply has a default assigned triangle-shape LFO which has position going up and down from Start to End (at a rate defined by SPEED).
Synthmaster2 can do the exact same things, and much more, with detailed ADSR envelopes, "semi-looping" or "fully-looping" advanced shapes/paths with MSEGs, or simpler looping LFOs.

I'll just add a screen as an example for START/END values in Synthmaster, which are chosen inbetween the actual wavetable's start and end.
You can really define and program any kind of wavetable position movement by choosing the right modulator and setting it up properly.
Codex definitely can't do the same, because it has more basic ADSR/LFOs and it does not have MSEGs at all.

[Compyfox]

At one point, it's great that I got SynthMaster since it's a very, very powerful synth. On the other, I realize pretty much daily how advanced it is and how I'm merely scratching the surface most of the time with it (or Synthesizers in general - hence me being an Audio Engineer, not a Sound Designer).

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like it's time to go back to experimenting then and not think about getting either Europa or CODEX anymore...

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like it's time to go back to experimenting then and not think about getting either Europa or CODEX anymore...

Correct. SM has a lot to offer that the others don't in terms of flexibility. Codex and Europa heve the benifits in sound and workflow.

I had Codex, I demoed Europa. I really like both but..... I HAVE SM. I enjoy the depth....but I am a sound designer.

[rockmachine]

Wow Compyfox, thanks for throwing up the Europa video. Very well done and though I already knew most of it, found the whole sampling thing really interesting and I have never really been much of a sample person in terms of editing them-always found it very dry and uninteresting on the musical level-Andrew certainly made me aware of the potency of loading samples in terms of how Europa can reconfigure them. I have SM and have loved it since the day I got it. It's definitely one of my main go to synths along with Zebra when it comes to anything requiring more complexity of modulations and open ended architecture along with the actual sound quality of both of them.