Re: Sample Levels in Neil Peart BFD Kit

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MickGael
KVRAF
1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003

Post Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:34 am

Hi Folks,

I'm wondering if anyone here has picked up the Neil Peart kit for BFD?

I'm noticing some pretty significant differences in the level of the various kit pieces. For example, the kick - and especially the snares - are presented at (relatively) very low levels. I find I'm having to add gain modules to them (and boosting as much as 15dB) to match the default levels of other pieces. Obviously, that is a considerable inconvenience.

I've also noticed what appears to be something that sounds like flanging or Haas effect in the toms and cymbals at times (the first time I've heard what sound like to be artefact's in BFD).

Anyone else having similar experiences?
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/

MickGael
KVRAF
1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003

Post Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:09 pm

As a quick follow-up, here is an example:

On beat 11 (the last tom hit) there is what sounds like phase smearing (almost like a Haas effect). It is a single tom hit, and no MIDI note duplication.

While it may be subtle to some, it is readily apparent to me:

http://www.danieljslewis.com/npbfd/
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/

Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:42 pm

Please talk to Allen in support to identify the issue you're having. We've not had any reports of this.
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Rockdude
KVRist
85 posts since 16 Apr, 2004

Post Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:32 am

MickGael wrote:As a quick follow-up, here is an example:

On beat 11 (the last tom hit) there is what sounds like phase smearing (almost like a Haas effect). It is a single tom hit, and no MIDI note duplication.

While it may be subtle to some, it is readily apparent to me:

http://www.danieljslewis.com/npbfd/
It's very apparent to me too when I listen to your example. I haven't noticed this on other sound clips from this kit that I've listened to.

MickGael
KVRAF
1821 posts since 5 Oct, 2003

Post Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:29 am

I thought so, too, Rockdude.

I'm glad to report that Allen is working with me to try and identify and duplicate the problems I am experiencing. Hoping it works, because otherwise it is a fun kit. :)
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/

universalme
KVRer
7 posts since 5 Jan, 2011

Post Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:32 pm

With apologies to Squids,
I have to say I am experiencing the same issue with quiet samples from the Neil Peart kit in BFD 2. However, I find it most noticable on the cymbals. Which really is a shame because they sound fantastic. If you be so kind as to forward Allen's email address, I would be happy to give a more detailed account of my observations. Thanks.

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:45 pm

Hey all,

Ashley Smith here. I beta test for FXpansion and have also done testings for this pack. I'm still waiting on an e-mail reply from Daniel (MickGael) regarding the issues. Here's what I wrote in response a week or so before Christmas...

--------------------

"Regarding the flanging/phasing of the toms, I haven't experienced this issue during testings this afternoon. If the user can pin point a specific tom, the articulation, its master.wav sample and whether it's direct, overhead, room or amb then that'd be of much help. Without more detailed info of their setup (how they're triggering) and their comp spec's and BFD setting preferences one would be hard pushed to go through each individual sample listening for such an issue.

I do note in the NPK Kit 18 preset, Tom 1 Hi has its Vel to Amp amount set higher than default (+35%), so one may experience louder hits when struck. The user will see denoted over the control slider "Multiple Values", which indicates just that... multiples values have been set for the various articulations for this kit piece control. He/she can reset this to whatever value they choose (50% being default) and then re-save the preset.

Please note to the user that when one loads the kit the Vel to Rnd amount in the Kit Piece Inspector for kit pieces may be different than when he/she loads an individual kit piece into a slot. At the moment there seems to be an issue/possible bug whereby all kit pieces upon initial loading into a slot display their Vel to Rnd amount at 100%. I personally like to have this initially set to 0% as I feel I have more control over my programming this way and do not wish for any randomization to occur at such a stage. The user can set this level how he/she chooses and then save a kit piece preset as "default" (without the quotes) so this will load every time. I have raised the issue with FXpansion and asked for a Vel to Rnd default global amount preference to be added in the settings panel as a feature request.

Additionally the user can add a tweaks.txt file to the kit piece folder(s) located in their data/content location to raise or lower the gain of said kit piece by writing the following...


# BFD Kit piece tweaks

Gain = +3.000 dB


**Note, the gain amount is just an example."

--------------------

Hope that helps. I'll post more info when I get a reply from Daniel or any further details from users experiencing problems.

Regards,
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

universalme
KVRer
7 posts since 5 Jan, 2011

Post Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:17 pm

Ashley,
If I understand you correctly, to adjust my "Ride", I will put the tweaks text file in the "Ride" folder that has the Bell, Bell 2, Edge, etc. folders? If that is correct, that will help me greatly.

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:02 am

You can add a tweaks file per folder to boost the gain of each articulation. Don't forget though that you've got the artic trim parameter to adjust each artic's level in the Kit Piece Inspector on the Kit Page... that should be ample enough.

Cheers :)
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

universalme
KVRer
7 posts since 5 Jan, 2011

Post Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:31 am

Ashley,
Since I build all my kits in the KPI, I had been using the KPI gain to boost the low NP pieces, in most cases, by the 6dB maximum. However, the NP cymbals were still extremely weak. As a test, last night, I did a tweaks.txt document with +10dB for the base folder of each piece. It really seemed to help, but I still had to add 6dB via the KPI to get a decent signal.

Was that the wrong thing to do? Would you recommend attacking this from a different angle?

Your knowledge and willingness to help is appreciated.

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:38 am

Well, you have the Kit Piece Trim and the KPI Artic Trim to boost your levels and those should be ample enough without need to add tweak files when balancing a full kit in the mixer. Note that this pack doesn't have any direct mic's for the cym's as with other FXpansion and third party ones, so you just have to be aware of your ambients and the levels of each kit piece respective to and in those.

I find the edge hits work great as your normal hit, and the hit artic used for more intricate parts and filling in gaps for that wash sound when used in conjunction with the edge.

I'll have to find a few moments to do some presets.

You can really boost the wash sound of the cymbals if you send the ambient destinations to an aux and place PSP Vintage Warmer on; set the speed to 100%, release to 1 and knee around 50-60%, and then place the Comp Bus after it and smash 'em.
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

universalme
KVRer
7 posts since 5 Jan, 2011

Post Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:58 pm

Ashley,
I think that just solved the mystery! My overheads and room mics had been brought down quite a bit to dry up the kit. So, without direct mics on the cymbals, the signal couldn't help but be weak.

Thanks for your cymbal wash technique. I will try it tonight.

(bow to Sensei)

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:16 pm

Cool :)
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:14 am

Vel Rnd and Anti Machine Gun Mode issues in the current build are being worked on.
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

User avatar
andywright67
KVRian
1310 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from UK

Post Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:14 pm

andywright67 wrote:Vel Rnd and Anti Machine Gun Mode issues in the current build are being worked on.
Hope you guys/gals caught news that this was fixed a while back. Sorry for not noting, I forgot about the thread till receiving e-mail ping. Keep track on the FXpansion forums.

Update away!! :)
Ashley Smith
CEO - MIX IT IN THE BOX
www.mixititb.com | www.seattleunderground.co.uk
Sound Engineer/Producer/Musician/Audio and Media Content Creator

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