IK Multimedia Xpansion Tank 2 Group Buy

[torgo]

For anyone still following this thread who chose the SampleArp Solo pack...

Several users expressed disappointment at the quality of the sounds in this set. Others have noted that while the raw parent samples are sometimes lackluster, they're ACCURATE.

Quite frankly, many patches from that family of hardware instruments needed a whole lot of help to produce the classic sounds attributed to them. For better or worse, this sound set gives you the real deal. And with the right effects, they can be outstanding.



Two pretty obvious tips (apologies to everyone who has already done these):

First, let's get the one for newbies out of the way... if this group buy is your first introduction to SampleTank, you might have noticed that there's a triangle/arrow in front of each of the sound names.

The Big Secret: click on one of those arrows.

Presto... the sound list expands to show you all the "child" presets that are based on that parent sample. Those child sounds have various effects already applied. Many of them will end up sounding quite different from the parent patch.

This is true for the other multisample instrument sets you got in this group buy as well. Not all the patches are immediately visible - just the parent patches. You have to click those triangles to see the rest of the "family".



Second.... go crazy adding extra effects. That's what we did with the original hardware Arps (and Prophets, Jupiters, OBs, DX7s, etc) - and that's really what was MEANT to be done with these sounds as well.

It may seem wrong to have to beef up the sounds to make them "work" the way you think they should straight away. But the folks that sampled these instruments were aiming to bring you an accurate representation of the Arp sounds. The good news is that they succeeded. The bad news is... they succeeded. So don't be shy with the outboard effects.



One effect I'm playing with tonight and finding that works *especially* well with the SampleArp set (better than with the pianos, drums, bass, etc - though you get some really creepy sounds out of Symphony Strings or Cinematik with it) is Martin Eastwood's Duet.

It's an automatic double tracking plug-in. Imagine a love-child between an old school chorusing effect and a flanger, doubling the sound and giving separate delay/feedback/etc control for each part plus the basic chorus detuning to fatten things up.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/3526.html

(The bad news: you can't download or "regularly" purchase Duet anymore. The developer has signed a deal with Computer Music magazine giving them exclusive distribution.

The good news: it now comes free with the magazine. So if you have a nearby book store or computer store that carries that rag, for around $16 you can get it plus the other instruments, effects, and other stuff they include on a dual-layer DVD with each issue.)

I'm also having way too much fun running sounds like "ArQuadra", "Ar PWM", or even the Prosoloist flute, clarinet and English Horn patches through Amplitube.

It's not pretty. But stuff like the Phaze 9 and Wah-Wah pedals from Amplitube Metal and the rack effects in Amplitube Hendrix create some interesting results, especially starting with the "cleaner" amp/cab/mic setups.



One other tip for Windows-based newcomers: if you're using an "intro" version of a sequencer/workstation program and don't have enough "slots" for all the effects you want to use, try an effects chainer such as Acon's free download "EffectChainer":

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2497.html

It acts like an effects rack - you load it into your workstation, taking up only one effects "slot". Then you load all the effects you want (VST or DirectX) into it. And presto! You're no longer limited in how many effects you can load up per instrument. If you can load any effects at all, you can use an unlimited number of them.



I know I'm going on way too long about nothing significant. Sorry to waste your time with what nearly all of you knew already.

But if anyone new out there hadn't discovered clicking on the triangles yet or has been struggling with a limit on effects in an intro version of a workstation, these are important things to know...

-torgo (esoundz: bhall1968)

[jeff_free69]

This thread is already so overloaded, but this is where I got into it so maybe someone can point me on the right trail. Of my 16 XPansions. I've pulled about 10 so far including the 60's motown loops. So whats the workflow you use to build a song with all these loops???

I just re-found this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=236373
Check it out, I think it'll have some useful tips for you.

Chris,

Thanks very much for the link and detailed response.

I spent a couple of hours going thru the loops last night (before insanity set in). There seems to be a common theme to a lot of them "postman xxx" , "devil xxx", etc . But as you confirmed, they are all over the place. I suppose I could just reorganzie teh folders to my liking. BTW Most of loops are triggered on B0 (only one group is on B1 (whats up with that?)

Thanks again,
Jeff

[NoviceNewbie]

Thanks for those tips, torgo. I hadn't clicked on the little arrows by the sound names. I was wondering how to make use of the child presets. And the other information you posted is very useful, too. Everyone else may have already known about these tips, but I didn't!

Thanks!

[Meffy]

Moving to eSoundz / Sonic Reality forum so the thread won't "fall off the end" of Market Place.

[robstowell]

Hi- I joined this group buy in early May. I got a reciept, and a lot of email around how well it was going, and how it'd been extended. But never anything saying: you can download your files now.
Now on esoundz I have a serial number of xpansion tank group buy. But I don't know what to do with it, and I understand I may have missed out on downloading the products. (I thought we had 30 days from June 6- but it looks as if there may have been a June 14 cut-off- I'm not sure why.)
What can I do?
Regards- rob

[torgo]

Hi- I joined this group buy in early May. I got a reciept, and a lot of email around how well it was going, and how it'd been extended. But never anything saying: you can download your files now.
Now on esoundz I have a serial number of xpansion tank group buy. But I don't know what to do with it, and I understand I may have missed out on downloading the products. (I thought we had 30 days from June 6- but it looks as if there may have been a June 14 cut-off- I'm not sure why.)
What can I do?
Regards- rob

Ouch... The short answer is yes, there was a cutoff in mid-June. That was the deadline to register with IK to get all the extra selections. Regardless of where you bought it, you needed to register, download the XT player and select all your goodies through IK.

What to do now: put in a support ticket with IK Multimedia, give them the same details you posted above and ask them the same questions, and hope for the best.

Also send a PM to Peter from IK Multimedia, with the same details and the same questions, and again hope for the best. Peter's a good guy. I suspect he'll do what he can to take care of you.

And if you don't mind, after you hear back from IK support and from Peter, please also PM me and let me know how things turn out. (Make it a PM rather than a regular message post, so that I'll be certain to see it.)

One other note... since you bought it from esoundz, you should have a download code for your esoundz "Raise The Bar" bonus selection plus the bonus Wild Card library. Check your esoundz user area (if you're logged in, you can click on your user ID to get to your account) and click "My Downloads" on the left side of the screen.

If you don't have those download codes available, put in a support ticket for them through esoundz.

Strong recommendation: feel free to download the Wild Card set from esoundz if you like, but *WAIT* until the IK situation is resolved AND you've made your selections from IK before redeeming your esoundz bonus DL code (or even clicking on the link, as it tries to cash in your code right away).

There were plenty of issues/questions people had with those choices, and there isn't even an easily available list on their web site. (The DownloadableSoundz web site makes you click "Redeem" first before it shows you the complete, accurate list.)

The sets you (hopefully) get from IK will affect your esoundz bonus decision, and you WILL want to ask questions about your potential selection BEFORE you redeem the code.

I'll be happy to walk through all the choices/angles with you when that time comes... again, PM me after you hear back from Peter and from IK support.

Good luck.
-torgo (esoundz: bhall1968)

[torgo]

robstowell - I just noticed that you just now joined KVR to post your message, so you might need help finding Peter at IK to send him a PM...

Click on page 1 of this thread (scroll down this screen and you'll find the "Goto page" near the bottom). Peter entered the second message on page 1. Click "PM" under his user name and then leave him a message to spell out the situation for him.

You'll have to go to IK Multimedia's web site to put in a support ticket there and do the same.

I'm fairly sure things will work out for you one way or another. They're really good about being fair and taking care of customers.

(And again, please PM me to let me know how it goes - preferably before you make any of your selections, so that we can hopefully steer you clear of some mistakes with your choices that many others - myself included - made with ours.)

[vata44]

Not trying to start a fight here, but does anyone else after browsing through the sounds from this SR Xpansiontank 2 think that a lot if not most of the sounds are pretty damn bad?

I have looked through quite a few of my packs here (omnisynth, vocals, vintage keys, oberhiem, arp, strings) and I have found VERY little quality amongst them. The noise floor is high, the harshness is terrible, the panning is something completely off, the key placement is often awkward and confusing.

Other than the world instruments I feel like I truly got nothing workable... it actually makes me terribly sad and one person who will never vouch for eSoundz/SR sample banks. They do not even come close to the quality of the original Sampletank library. What a waste of money, IMO. Anyone else in agreement?

[Xenobt]

vaisnava,
I too have some issues with technical points of the content, (some pops and clicks at instrument sustain loops, tuning and tonal jumps at multi-sample points, distortion (the unwanted kind) sampled into some instruments(!)), but then I remember that with the esoundz bonus', I'm getting a full sample library with pro-quality effects for under $5!

If just one patch from a set gives me a song idea, or that particular instrument is there when I need it, it's priceless!

As I've written earlier, lots of sounds from classic records wouldn't be considered hi-def today, but make magic in a mix... and that using ST/SR sounds with your other hardware and software instruments will give your tonal palette more depth, either used alone or blended with other sources.

As for the "harsh" sound of STXT2.5, here's something I posted earlier this month:

"There have been some posts about the ST tone quality vs other workstations. I think the difference in tone is that the SR libraries have a "recorded" sound, i.e. off a final master, with all the cool vintage gear in full effect. Where most other libraries use a close-mic/in-your-face approach. Both are good, but MIXING them is even better!

Try this: turn on eq/comp as one of your Part fx, and use these settings:
Low Gain +5.2db/mid freq 1.8khz/mid gain -7db/Hi Gain +3db/ Comp Off/Gain 0.0

Many of the samples are mono, so add something else to get them out there in stereo, (like the CS reverb, ambience or multitap chorus for example). Turn the wet/dry mix to 32%. Press the lock button on the lower left and step thru your libraries. See what you think, it seems to open things up some..."

And as torgo and zedd pointed out earlier, many of the parent samples are raw, just waiting for some cool effects and controller mapping to bring them to life, especially the vintage synth and cinematik collections... It's a little more work, but you'll have something that's truly yours.

There's also a nice set of tweaks to the vocal set by JavaJ in the Banks and Patches section of this site that fix some tuning and volume issues in that volume.

I use my admittedly dated Roland JV-2080 for lots of things, and an 8MB(!) expansion card for them is STILL more than the whole group buy, even now.

So I'm LOVING the new 10GB infusion of sounds, and the inspiration they bring, even if there are some quirks. We all have 'em!

[torgo]

You said the panning was way off on some of the sounds. Are you saying you weren't able to pan them the way you wanted?

(For anyone who doesn't know about it yet...

Below the red browser area, there are nine buttons in that gray area that say Macro, Synth, Filter, Env1, Env2, etc. Click on the "Synth" button. That brings up four knobs to the left, including the one for the Pan setting.

Set it the way you want it (click it and drag up or down - 64 is center, 0 is hard left, 127 is hard right) and save the sound as your own child preset.)



I was a little disappointed with a few sets too. For example, the Vocal Collection didn't strike me as being all that - and in most cases, the only child preset is simply the parent with reverb.

But I haven't run across any sets that I would say were not worth the $6.25 (or less) that we paid for them. Most have been well worth the full $50 on their own.

[torgo]

An example of using extra effects with those SampleArp sounds... if you have Amplitube Hendrix, try this just for giggles:

(Advance warning: this won't be everyone's cup of tea. The point is that the old Arp hardware synths lent themselves nicely to processing or mangling. Add lots of chorus and a little reverb, and you'll get something out of "Come Sail Away". Or try something like what's below and see how twisted things can get...)

Select the ProSoloist Clarinet sound. (Play a few notes to get an idea of what you're starting with.)

Drop the pitch an octave (click the SYNTH button and look to the left for the "Pitch" dial. Click it and drag the mouse straight down until it reads -12)

In the effects area, turn on AMBIENCE as the next effect after EQ/COMP. Set it to time=0.3s, size = around 20, dry/wet = around 25%.

Turn on TONE as a third effect. Model = Tube 2, presence = around 4, level = around 2. Boost the high and low to 7, and drop the mid to 4. (We'll boost the mid back up in the amp section, after the stomp pedal effects.)

Now fire up Amplitube Hendrix and set it to algorithm/signal path #1.

For the Stomp A section, put in Octa-V. Turn the volume down a little, and set the drive to max. Then put in FuzzOne, setting both the volume and attack to roughly the one o'clock position.

In the amp section, choose British Lead S100 for the pre, gain=6. EQ = British Tube Lead 1, boost the middle to 8, leaving the bass and treble at 5. Set the presence to 8 and drop the spring reverb to 1. Amp = 100W 6L6T, volume = 5.

Cab = 4x12 closed 75C. Mic = Ribbon 160, off axis, far position, fairly high ambience (about 2/3 of the way to the right).

Rack effects = (1) stereo reverb, with the decay dial in the middle (12 o'clock position, roughly 7.65s), high Density (dial at 3 o'clock position), Color at 9 o'clock, mix = 50% (12 o'clock), out level at 10 o'clock.

(2) Tube compressor - drive around -10 db (9 o'clock), attack as short as possible (7 o'clock, dial at min), quick release (9 o'clock), ratio and out level dials at middle settings (12 o'clock).

(3) Parametric EQ - season to taste. I'm using smaller monitors, so I'm boosting the bass gain to max with freq and Q at 12 o'clock, plus setting the midrange gain at 3 o'clock with the Q also at 3 o'clock.

Result = a pretty evil electric bassoon.


Alternate twist - load those same Amplitube Hendrix settings into X-Gear instead, and add a Fuzz Age stomp, then a Uni-V, and then the Analog Chorus stomp. (Or just leave it in Hendrix, add the Fuzz Age and Uni-V, and add on your own chorus effect of choice as an entirely separate effect in your workstation.)

Very, very different from that starting Prosoloist Clarinet sound...

[bongo_x]

It's amazing to me that people are complaining that they have to do something to the sounds to get them to sound like they want. Horrors! Next thing you know you might have to play the part yourself.

Why doesn't someone just start selling complete DAW sessions with the songs already competed that people can call their own? We're very close to that now.

bb

[torgo]

With the SampleArp set, many of the complaints (from way, way back - 80 or more pages ago) really are quite fair.

People got the acoustic guitar collection, Cinematik, and piano collection 2, and were generally very happy with them. They sound pretty good, either as-is or with a little help from the effects already available within SampleTank.

Then they got the SampleArp pack. And WOW, many of these sounds need a lot of help.

I believe the problem is that most users (including nearly all users under age 40) simply aren't familiar with the original hardware and chose this set along with the Vintage Keys and SampleOB sets to round out a solid collection of synths from the '70s and '80s.

Everyone knows that a whole bunch of Really Famous People used them on a whole bunch of Really Famous Recordings. So the assumption is that they're really incredible instruments.

Allow me to burst that bubble. ARPs sucked. The keyboardists who used them did so because back in 1972-1975, there weren't all that many options out there. The Soloist and ProSoloist were easily portable and could sit on top of a Hammond organ on stage. And the 2600 had that LOOK to it. Google for a pic and you'll see what I mean.

But the sound wasn't all that - yes, Edgar Winter used the eariler Arps on "Frankenstein", bands like Depeche Mode used the later ARP 2600, and that classic five-note sequence from "Close Encounters" was an ARP 2500.

The thing to remember is that Edgar Winter, Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, etc all had bigger arsenals of outboard effects for those keyboards than most studios.

You aren't hearing "raw" Arps on Steely Dan's "Countdown to Ecstasy" or Gary Numan's "Telekon" albums. The instruments had a whole lot of help.

The good news is that with extra effects, we can make those classic sounds too. But the Arp sounds need a bit more than just the extra effects built into SampleTank.

And they need a WHOLE LOT more help than the acoustic guitar collection, piano collection, symphony strings, world instruments, bass collection, etc. So it's easy to understand someone firing it up and immediately feeling disappointed.

The best thing is that as one of eight choices in a $50 group buy, we paid $6.25 or less for a collection of sounds from the ProSoloist, Odyssey, 2600, etc, all in one bundle.

By comparison, the Odyssey alone - all 37 keys in full duophonic(!) glory - would have set you back $1500-$2000 in the mid '70s.

[youngwoerth]

Some people seem to forget that we're talking about SAMPLETANK. Sampletank is a Sample Player - and not a Synthesizer where you tweak your sounds for hours. If I'm interested in sculpting my own sounds I take Rob Papen or Novation stuff. But as to an Expansion Tank of a Rompler I'm looking for high quality presets for a quick load. Do you have to tweak samples in Atmosphere or the Kore-Packs to make them sound good? I like many of the Xpansions, by the way...

[torgo]

Well, almost. It's actually NOT Sampletank - it's an extra set of sounds created by a third party in Sampletank format. Sonic Reality created all of the sounds in these XpansionTank sets, not IK Multimedia.

It's perfectly natural to expect a sound library for a ROMpler to be pretty good straight out of the box. That's why the fussing about SampleArp is justified.

But SR faced an interesting challenge: do you go for the genuine article, or do you go for a handful of the possible processed results? Either way, a lot of people were bound to fuss about it. I think they made the right choice.

By going with the real (raw) thing, they were able to give us a pretty good representation of the entire family in a 1.16 gig sound set. Creating a well-rounded collection of already-processed Arps would take something like 5 gig of parent samples. That would have made SampleArp a full $229 instrument on its own, like SampleMoog or SampleTron.

For the $6.25 group buy price, I'll happily add my own effects.