Sampletank 3?

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Xenobt
KVRian
921 posts since 14 May, 2010 from Atlanta, GA

Post Tue May 01, 2012 8:34 am

Thanks for clearing that up, Squids! Sorry to anyone I steered wrong, hopefully no harm done. :oops:

There are some beauties in Piano Collection 2, no matter how many you get in TW2. And for ten dollars, even a few new keys are a bargain!

My personal favorite is still the Clean Piano from Hip Hop Instruments. It sits great in the mix, is deeply expressive for a non-velocity layered instrument and is VERY CPU friendly. In fact, the whole HHI set is not to be missed.

And there are lots of cool keyboards in OmniSynth 2 as well, especially in the Bonus Larger Instruments section. Electric and acoustic grands, DX7 and Rhodes eps, harpsichord and celeste, clavs, and really nice organs of all types.

It's also a great sounding General Midi set, with even more bonus synth waves from EMS, Moog and Sequential for your own creations. As someone who grew up without preset synths, it's great to get under the hood and make my own again, something the ST engine makes EASY!

Also, if you're not aware, you can run all of the TW2 instruments in Sampletank like an Xpansion library. It puts thousands of sounds under one GUI and search engine. Just put your STXL, Samplemoog, Miro, SS2 and SampleTron Folders in the main Sampletank "Instruments" folder, and hit relist on the upper right of its GUI. Give it a few minutes, and they'll show up in the main browser. EASY!

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

ephraze619
KVRist
110 posts since 6 Aug, 2005

Post Wed May 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Hey Squids. If ST3 is released this year and you purchase Total Workstation 2 Group Buy, will ST3 be a FREE upgrade????
EPhraZe IzReal Music....Ig you need hot beats hit me up.

bobbybland
Banned
959 posts since 10 Apr, 2007

Post Thu May 03, 2012 12:08 am

In my case,I'd like to have the sounds now,but the current gui is entirely to small for me to work with.I bought into a group buy a few years back,thinking some sort of update would come soon as much as they we're hyping s3 at the time,but nothing.

It's a major shame that the IK team never made a new one,as many complaints there we're about it,even a point update that allowed a resizable gui with a few more size options.Instead we got iphone stuff,unacceptable imo.

As bad as I might want the sounds,I never use s2,to justify spending anymore cash with IK until they can provide a gui I can look at and not strain my eyes.

I'm with squids here I think this is an amazing deal for the sounds,but I'll wait until they knock out a beta that shows some promise.

Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Tue May 08, 2012 2:19 pm

ephraze619 wrote:Hey Squids. If ST3 is released this year and you purchase Total Workstation 2 Group Buy, will ST3 be a FREE upgrade????
Even though I don't know I can tell you that the answer is still no to that. But I have no idea what the upgrade will cost or any advanced info I can share except that it IS in the works and it is going to be cool.
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Gizzmo0815
KVRer
24 posts since 28 May, 2010

Post Thu May 10, 2012 8:21 pm

Just to pile on to this thread. I think it's complete and utter bullshit that ST3 hasn't been released yet.

The competition is outdoing IK multimedia in every way. iStuff is all well and good, but the core market is steaming ahead while IK is left in the dust. Kontakt...better. Omnisphere...better. Yellowtools...better. Mach 3...better. With these many options out there why would I choose to move to a company that doesn't even come close to offering comparative development cycles? That's right...I wouldn't.

I'll be taking my money elsewhere. Thanks for the ride IK...your company is falling behind in the market you designed yourself around.

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inboxzero
KVRist
50 posts since 2 Mar, 2012

Post Wed May 16, 2012 3:04 am

Gizzmo0815 wrote:Just to pile on to this thread. I think it's complete and utter bullshit that ST3 hasn't been released yet.

The competition is outdoing IK multimedia in every way. iStuff is all well and good, but the core market is steaming ahead while IK is left in the dust. Kontakt...better. Omnisphere...better. Yellowtools...better. Mach 3...better. With these many options out there why would I choose to move to a company that doesn't even come close to offering comparative development cycles? That's right...I wouldn't.

I'll be taking my money elsewhere. Thanks for the ride IK...your company is falling behind in the market you designed yourself around.
Personally, I've kind of given up hope with IK.

I was a big user of SS, ST2, Miroslav, CSR, T-racks but kind of took a couple years off music. When I came back to it, pretty much nothing new from them, other than a bunch of stuff for apple, which though I'm sure there is a market, does not interest me in the least.

I still use their stuff regularly, but I'm turning more and more to other products.

Saying that the music cafe competition entry this month I did, is purely only cubase and IK multimedia stuff, so there is nothing wrong with the tools I have. It would just be nice to have something new.
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Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Thu May 17, 2012 5:17 am

If there's nothing wrong with the tools one has then... I don't see the problem. I understand the excitement for something newly developed and since I know what it can do I am even more excited for its release. But nothing is "left in the dust" just because other companies have developed versions faster. There may be features that other software has that this doesn't but visa versa. There's STILL not anything that replaces what SampleTank does exactly. Nothing works the same either. It has its place and price is certainly right. SampleTank 3 will be that much more desirable for what it offers and it will be nice to finally get an update. I agree this has taken way too long but rather than complain about that I'm more positive about it happening at all.

What we've got works and with the Total Workstation Bundle it's full of unique sounds that will make some great music. At that price it's really a no brainer and the modern features of other plug-ins don't change that Miroslav Philharmonik is one of the best sounding orchestras in context of your music or that SampleTron has some seriously quirky cool tron sounds (and Tron technology is not developing further than that), SampleMoog offers the old anthology of Moog sounds and Sonik Synth 2... for those that REALLY get what that beast can do there is absolutely nothing on the market like it. There probably never will be either - apart from Sonik Synth 3 that is. ;)
http://www.sonicreality.com
http://www.esoundz.com
My album with guests Steve Hackett, Keith Emerson and more: http://www.davekerzner.com
Sonic Reality Progressive Rock Project: http://www.facebook.com/sonicelements

bobbybland
Banned
959 posts since 10 Apr, 2007

Post Wed May 30, 2012 11:49 pm

My beef with sampletank is it's gui is too small,I can't even read it and work with it comfortably. I like the sound it makes,but the gui is terrible. That being said,it made no sense to not add a small gui update to their plugin by now.
What would have it have killed them to do that? what some man hours and a whole host of new and old customers to appreciate it.

I welcome any news regarding st3 because I'M SURE THEY will make a better one if it ever does come out.

Budbud
KVRist
154 posts since 24 Mar, 2007

Post Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:14 am

Everybody seems to hate the GUI on SampleTank, but that's one of the things I LOVE about it. Having limited screen real estate on a 15" laptop, I HATE GUI's that basically take up my entire screen, like NI Kore or Massive. I mean, I deal with it, but I like being able to see what's going on in my arrangement, while making adjustments and tweaks to whatever vsti I'm using. IK's GUI's may be small, but they are clear to understand and they are the easiest vsti's to route multiple channels with, that's for sure!

Recently, however, all of my IK installs self destructed and I haven't been able to use any of them, SampleTank, SampleMoog, SonikSynth etc. All of the installs got corrupted at the same time for some reason. I received a support answer regarding a remedy rather quickly (NICE!), but...that was over a week ago and I STILL haven't been compelled to attempt to get all of my IK stuff running again.

Why?

Well, in the interim, I started using various other vsti's as "place holders" for what were originally IK instrument tracks. I've also been adding to my projects with vsti's other than those from IK. I've been using KORE, with an expansion pack that uses a ton of Massive sounds for example. What I've found, to my surprise is two things.

1. IK STUFF IS AN UNSTABLE RESOURCE HOG
The IK stuff is a surprising resource hog and IT has been the reason that my projects USED TO take so....long to open up, then hang and crash frequently.

Now, even THAT, I could live with, IF it weren't for my other disheartening discovery.

2. IK STUFF IS VERY MUCH LACKING IN OVERALL FIDELITY
I used to pretty much start with IK on my tracks, because it was my first vsti kit, so, I have a special connection to them. Having been forced to work with newer vsti's lately, even demos of some, it's become clear to me that the IK stuff is very much lacking in the fidelity department. Tracks that I thought were good already have surprisingly come alive with a three dimensionality and depth of sound, clarity and a professional sheen that I just wasn't getting from the IK stuff, Philharmonik being an exception of course, I still LOVE that vsti.

There's just such a night and day difference in the overall fidelity of IK stuff and other things on the market today. Compare the depth and dimensionality of SonikSynth sounds to those found in Massive, Zebra or Diva for example, even Kontakt and you will find that something like SonikSynth is ironically lacking in it's "sonics", LOL, with SampleTank sounding the worst of the bunch in my opinion. I even bought a Sonik Reality expansion for Kontakt and the sound quality is leagues ahead. It's the same sounds produced for IK's vsti's, but they just sound so much cleaner, dimensional and richer in Kontakt.

Because of this, I may just reinstall Philharmonik and...that money I've mentally set aside for ST3 is going to go to NI, U-HE or even Image Line.

What really bugs me about IK has been a seeming lack of desire to keeping their core workstation vsti's up to date, while simultaneously releasing an endless string of toys for the iPhone or iPad every month! It's maddening. It's like IK is trying hard to become the hobbyist/consumer music toy company, leaving the pro and prosumer market behind. One gets the feeling that all of IK's legacy workstation vsti's are treated like a boring afterthought by the company, with a "we'll get to them when we get to them" attitude.

How long have we been hearing that ST3 is on its way? At this point, I find it disrespectful to their customers to not even offer a vague, ballpark window of time until we might see an ST3 release. I give up! I'm no longer waiting for it. I mean if IK can't tell me if it will be released within the next six months or next six years, I'm done holding out for it. Perhaps, if and when it finally does get released AND it's substantially improved sonically, AND it's substantially improved as far as being an unstable resource hog, AND I don't feel like I already have all of my bases covered with vsti's from other companies by then, I MIGHT consider buying it. That's right. I've gone from eagerly awaiting the next generation of IK workstation vsti's to being indifferent.

I don't even go to the IK website anymore because to see what they are spending time on and hyping lately is nonsense in my opinion. As I write this, IK is probably getting ready to release some "highly useful" and "professional" piece of hardware, like a plug in electric tambourine for iPhone and iPad ':dog:' . So sad...

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Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
6631 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:58 am

It's like IK is trying hard to become the hobbyist/consumer music toy company, leaving the pro and prosumer market behind.
Like a plug in electric tambourine for iPhone and iPad 'D'oh!' . So sad...
Like ARC System 2? More updates in 2012 for AmpliTube Custom Shop than on iOS (which is our top iOS app)?

Vague ballpark is not likely this year. Hope that is an honest answer for you. As far as sonics go, since this is the Sonic Reality forum I can let Squids or Allen better answer that. Aside from some obvious things about the samples themselves in the different engines, of course. One tip that I see and hear (literally) make the sounds "bigger" (which seems to be what you are looking for from your description) is to use the ToneControl effect, it really is a great way to open up the sounds quite a bit and make them sound huge.

We have a limited amount of resources, but luckily there's actually overlap with the VI development on iOS and desktop, so along with pretty much funding everything else that overlap actually helps the desktop VI development too.
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Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:50 pm

I think each virtual instrument is going to sound different. A sample-based plug-in is of course going to sound even more different than a synth model type like Massive or others. What I like about SampleTank is that it is very musical. Also the way you work with sounds is fast and gets the job done. I love Kontakt and other formats too. For certain sounds one format will perhaps be preferred to another and it depends on the song. For instance sometimes I prefer Kontakt for drums and then sometimes I prefer SampleTank - particularly if the highest fidelity is not what I'm going for (because I like the effects and organic sound of SampleTank for certain kinds of drum sounds). SampleTank 3, even though I agree the wait IS too long, is only going to take what ST does today to the next level and that to me is exciting. There are a ton of sounds made for it already and there will be many more new sounds for ST3. It will have its place, its appeal and purpose that IS quite different than the other tools that are out there. But I'm not one to suggest anyone stick with just one plug-in or even just plug-ins (get some hardware too and even some vintage keyboards or acoustic instruments and mix it up!).

Whenever someone says this format vs. that format I always think... it's not a contest. Use what you like! No one says anyone has to use just one sample-based instrument. It's all part of the TOOL KIT on hand.

One thing I think we're going to do in the not too distant future are easy inexpensive format crossgrades on www.esoundz.com where you can have multiple formats of Sonic Reality sounds in case you want to use one sampler or another in any given situation.
http://www.sonicreality.com
http://www.esoundz.com
My album with guests Steve Hackett, Keith Emerson and more: http://www.davekerzner.com
Sonic Reality Progressive Rock Project: http://www.facebook.com/sonicelements

nexussynth
KVRian
538 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Post Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:42 pm

frankly talk of ST3 is somewhat ludicrous. it was actually first discussed SEVEN years ago...think about that...

i've moved on.

i use kontakt almost exclusively except for the Philharmonik, which is the best thing to come out of IK imo.

as far as sound quality, squids is right about that. kontakt has a much bigger footprint in memory usage to achieve the better sound quality and realism. i never thought sound was much of an issue since ST2. i don't think i would be spending money for an ST3 upgrade unless there were some excellent affordable new orchestral libraries for it that maybe took advantage of the new features.

yes the gui is small but i like it WAY better than kontakt for browsing and loading sounds. And yes i STILL use ST and like it. just not as much anymore.

i suspect though that as economic times are hard IK has been hit so they are scrambling to find other markets and emphasizing product development there.

so for me....kontakt rules....for now :wink:
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

Xenobt
KVRian
921 posts since 14 May, 2010 from Atlanta, GA

Post Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:16 pm

Well said, nexussynth! This year is probably out, and it's only August. Sigh.

But I'll keep using it (til my os strands it), for a lot of reasons, one of them the almost "recorded" quality of Sampletank 2.5. It sounds like something off a master recording, rather than being right there with it, is the best I can describe it.

And for some things that's great, but for stuff that needs more 1st generation punch, I go elsewhere too. The Tone Control effect gets ST LOTS closer, but there's an "open" quality in other VIs that it can't match.

In fact, the Infinite Player versions of many of the ST libraries sound GREAT thru Kontakt. Much bigger and more present, but also more ram used.

So Sampletank's low cpu footprint, easy to get, quick to tweak gui, and great effects really do make me wish for the sound of the Kontakt or UVI sound engines, but with all the cool, quirky charm and functionality that makes IK/SR stuff close to my heart.

KVR/eSoundz: Xenobt

LAGinz
KVRist
381 posts since 8 Jan, 2012

Post Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:19 am

I think Peter's comment about no ST3 this year and its need to glom on to resources of other projects to progress pretty much confirmed what most of us already knew----that Sampletank is a very low priority at IK. Given that, I suspect any new purchases I make will be in the Kontakt format. But please guys, can't you just throw us a bone by giving us a 64 bit Sampletank FREE, like NI did with Kore, before it phased that platform out ??

Having said that, do I regret my purchase on the recent Tron deal? Not for a single second!! The sounds are just tremendous and are full of the somewhat lo-fi character that was contained in those instruments. They are also far superior to those tron-type samples contained in Kontakt's factory library. High kudos to Squids and crew!!

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Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
6631 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Post Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:32 am

It is given resources but requires quite a lot - in planning a project you lay out what all your resources can do and SampleTank 3 is there and chugging along with resources throughout. I didn't say nor imply it was a low priority. We have many releases and we're dedicating resources as necessary - an iOS release is a much different type of project and shorter timeline by nature. If we are using sounds that will we in SampleTank 3 all along the way while developing SampleTank iOS I'd think that's doing our best to have overlap to help the process along.

As far as economic speculation, we appreciate it but what you're doing is just that - speculation. It is more business decision where a quicker-to-market piece of software and/or accessory that will sell enough to fund other forays seems like a smart one. We aren't a huge company and we dedicate resources as we can. We're not going anywhere, we're still making products for the desktop market (nobody seems to want to hear about ARC 2 and more desktop updates than iOS updates on our top product line?) so to imply anything else is just making projections based on looking from the outside.

If only there were a "fantasy audio developer" league. Seems like it would be very popular.
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