Sample Licensing

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Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:23 am

I will put together a huge FAQ this year because every once in a while these questions crop up and they get tedious. I know it isn't fun reading but here is Sonic Reality's license agreement for use of its samples: http://www.sonicreality.com/eula.php

This is a standard license agreement that is very similar tot he entire professional sampling industry. In short it says that when you purchase the product you are purchasing the non-transferable license to use it in your music. You are not purchasing the license to relicense it as samples - even if you make your own loops out of it. Can you do that with VSL or Omnisphere either? No. Of course not.

Anyway, this came up in another thread and it would be more appropriate either in a general discussion about ALL sample companies that have this EULA, not just us, or if you have specific questions about it you can ask us here - particularly if you think it is relevant specifically to SR and not to the entire sampling industry.

Thanks
http://www.sonicreality.com
http://www.esoundz.com
My album with guests Steve Hackett, Keith Emerson and more: http://www.davekerzner.com
Sonic Reality Progressive Rock Project: http://www.facebook.com/sonicelements

jjkinva
KVRist
121 posts since 8 Nov, 2007 from Alexandria, VA

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:35 am

Squids - Thank you very much for the clarification. I've been around KVR long enough to have seen a number of long-winded sample licensing threads. Didn't want to start another one, fer shure, and your link to the EULA was what I was really looking for. Keep doing what you're doing...great stuff!
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world---those who understand binary numbers and those who don't." - Unknown

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20464 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:05 am

The following quotations were originally posted in the group buy thread. Since there is no way to merge posts from one existing thread into another existing thread, they'll have to be done by quoting. No text has been altered.
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20464 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:06 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
zedd wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504
I'm not sure if your license for these drum libraries allows you to create loops which you can sell. That may be prohibited.
Dude, of course the licence allows me to do that, just like any other sample library in the world. I'm not selling the samples, I'm selling a loop made with these samples. Why on earth would I buy a sample Library if I could not use it for my work be it commercial or whatever.

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20464 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:07 am

Reverend Rhythm wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504
I've been enjoying these!
jjkinva wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Zedd wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504
I'm not sure if your license for these drum libraries allows you to create loops which you can sell. That may be prohibited.
Dude, of course the licence allows me to do that, just like any other sample library in the world. I'm not selling the samples, I'm selling a loop made with these samples. Why on earth would I buy a sample Library if I could not use it for my work be it commercial or whatever.
Not casting any aspersions or whatever, but I'd like to know Squids' explanation of the EULA regarding using these drum samples in a "song" vs. an isolated, drums-only "loop". I know that with some sample libraries/instruments it makes a difference. I searched on esoundz.com and looking in the FAQ, but couldn't find an EULA or usage T&Cs.

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20464 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:09 am

Squids wrote:
zedd wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504
I'm not sure if your license for these drum libraries allows you to create loops which you can sell. That may be prohibited.
You are correct. It is prohibited by the license agreement to make loops with sample libraries and sell them as sample libraries. Although it can be done with a proper licensing deal - we do this all the time for independent software companies to the majors. So if someone wanted to take Sonic Reality sounds and make loops with them and resell them they should contact me about doing a licensing deal is all. Then you can do it legally but pay some sort of fee to the owner of the source material.

Just to be clear on this - you do NOT have to do that at ALL just for using these samples in YOUR MUSIC. That IS what the end user license is for. It's for making music, not competing sample libraries that are relicensed to others. But for that I am not saying it cannot be done definitively. One just has to make a separate arrangement for something like that.

Imagine if you could make loops with Vienna Symphony Library and Omnisphere and resell them... that sure would be easy! I doubt they'd let anyone do that even if a proposed licensing deal was made. But with Sonic Reality I am pretty open to it as long as we own the rights to be able to license to you for that. We don't for everything but most things we do. We do sound licensing all the time - even for outside of this industry like video games, computer programs, web etc.

Meffy
Skunk Mod
20464 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:09 am

Squids wrote:
jjkinva wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Zedd wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:Here is a tribal sort of drumloop I just made with the DM2 Blasticks Kit:
http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/summary/pl ... iid.376504
I'm not sure if your license for these drum libraries allows you to create loops which you can sell. That may be prohibited.
Dude, of course the licence allows me to do that, just like any other sample library in the world. I'm not selling the samples, I'm selling a loop made with these samples. Why on earth would I buy a sample Library if I could not use it for my work be it commercial or whatever.
Not casting any aspersions or whatever, but I'd like to know Squids' explanation of the EULA regarding using these drum samples in a "song" vs. an isolated, drums-only "loop". I know that with some sample libraries/instruments it makes a difference. I searched on esoundz.com and looking in the FAQ, but couldn't find an EULA or usage T&Cs.

If you want to know more about standard end user license agreements for this industry there is a huge discussion in this marketplace thread. If there's something specific about SR's one can ask in our company forum.

I used the word standard because this is what ALL professional sample libraries do. The samples are licensed to you to use in your music. They are not licensed to you to relicense as competing sample libraries. Can you make your own loops with East West products? No. Big Fish Audio? No. Spectrasonics? No. Ilio? No. Vienna Symphony Library? No. Best Service? Nope. Time & Space & Zero & G? No no... not Sonic Reality either. http://www.sonicreality.com/eula.php

But this is nothing new in the sample industry. It has been this way from the start. It's a standard thing. If anyone is surprised by it then they don't know the sampling industry too well and should research some more before they make plans to be in the sampling industry - or they could run into trouble if they were to say make a whole cool loop library out of Omnisphere or Vienna Symphony Library as I said above. Think about that. Wouldn't that be a lot easier than doing the sound design work and orchestral sessions yourself? Sure it would. But it's not allowed. So my advice is to back to the drawing board on that idea. If you can do your own sound design and orchestral sessions or strike up a licensing deal for use of the source material in that way THEN you can do it legally.

The reason this discussion doesn't belong here is because it is not something particular to Sonic Reality. It is an industry-wide thing. Making your own loop libraries is not what these sample products are intended for. They are licensed to you to make music with and we don't even ask for any credit, there's no royalties owed to us if you make a big hit - more power to you. $99 bought you the license to use it in your music. But that's it. Not to relicense it to others or manipulate it and resell it.

- Squids
[added missing /quote tag]
Last edited by Meffy on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:22 am

jjkinva wrote:Squids - Thank you very much for the clarification. I've been around KVR long enough to have seen a number of long-winded sample licensing threads. Didn't want to start another one, fer shure, and your link to the EULA was what I was really looking for. Keep doing what you're doing...great stuff!
Thanks. No problem. Those that have been here long enough know what an ordeal that discussion can be. It comes with the territory of being in the sample industry though so I am used to it. However, at the moment I really want to focus on these hybrid kits for everybody and any fixes to settings etc. But at least the OT discussion can be here in a separate place. I may have to get back to it later if more explanation is needed.
http://www.sonicreality.com
http://www.esoundz.com
My album with guests Steve Hackett, Keith Emerson and more: http://www.davekerzner.com
Sonic Reality Progressive Rock Project: http://www.facebook.com/sonicelements

soundmodel
KVRian
686 posts since 28 May, 2010 from Finland

Post Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:30 am

So in the case of creating sample or loop libraries, do the sound designers themself license sounds from other sound designers to create content? Or is every pack assembled from original recorded/synthesized/processed sources and public domain / license-free sounds?

Edit: Thought this was a general thread, didn't realise this was Sonic Reality sub-forum.

Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:05 am

Fluky wrote:So in the case of creating sample or loop libraries, do the sound designers themself license sounds from other sound designers to create content? Or is every pack assembled from original recorded/synthesized/processed sources and public domain / license-free sounds?

Edit: Thought this was a general thread, didn't realise this was Sonic Reality sub-forum.
I can still answer it. Every loop library SHOULD be made from original recorded or synthesized content. A lot of what some people think are "public domain/license-free sounds" are probably NOT so be careful there. Digital keyboards can probably be used to make loop libraries with since they probably don't have the same EULA that sample library companies have... but who would want a loop library made with digital keyboards? I guess it depends on the sound and the part. I can see it if it's part of a construction kit but if it was a bunch of drum loops done with a digital keyboard... guess that's just not something I'd want but there's someone out there for everything I guess.

IMO real instruments or synthesized is the best way to go and of course doing original content is what makes it valuable let alone legal. Hope that helps.
http://www.sonicreality.com
http://www.esoundz.com
My album with guests Steve Hackett, Keith Emerson and more: http://www.davekerzner.com
Sonic Reality Progressive Rock Project: http://www.facebook.com/sonicelements

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