Philharmonik tips and tricks!

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Kim Lajoie
KVRAF
4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs

Post Fri May 16, 2008 5:44 am

sliver wrote:1. Crossfade between multiple layers
Load two layers, set them both to respond to the same midi channel. Then set the Velocity->Amp as a positive value for one layer and a negative value for the other layer. You'll need to fine tune the actual values by ear to make the crossfade smooth.

sliver wrote:2. using Cubase:changing the midi channel of incoming notes
If you want to do it in realtime, controlled by a CC (such as modwheel), I'm pretty certain it can be done with the Logical Editor. I can't quite remember how though right at this moment.

-Kim.

sliver
KVRer
13 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Post Mon May 19, 2008 7:02 am

Awesome! Thanks, I was able to play around with the program a bit...though, it brings up another question: How do you alleviate the "machine gun" effect on repested notes? I know in Kontact2 there's a script you can run to help out on sample libraries that aren't multi-sampled for this reason, wondering if there's a way in Philharmonik...

I've been casually meandering the internet for more tips/tricks/info on what one can do with the software, know of any more resources? Anyone?

cheers!

nexussynth
KVRian
538 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Post Mon May 19, 2008 5:39 pm

what you are referring to is where kontakt can momentarily switch in a sample from a higher note then re-tune it to the correct pitch for the repeated note. frankly, it's a very complicated script and chews up CPU. also it doesn't work well with lots of dfd going on. the biggest difference is that that technique can ONLY work on sample libraries that employ chromatic sampling of each instrument's notes, so an adjacent sample can be used. the miro is from a time when there wasn't even chromatic sampling on the synclavier! there were techniques we use to employ back in the day to attempt to overcome somewhat the repeated note or 'machinegun' effect, some of which might work on the miro, some not.

one thing i used to do was to modify my compositions to disguise the repeats with orchestration changes/additions. i know that is probably not something most people are prepared to do to their precious or carefully orchestrated compositions but this older technology almost requires one to approach their compositions idiomatically (with respect to the Miro/Sampletank engine). so many people are expecting this to operate like the ewqlso or vsl library. i have made some great music with the miroslav and did some really fine stuff with the original library almost 14 years ago on a k-2000. what you must do is experiment. it's the only way. you might read an old article in keyboard magazine from about eight years ago (james newton howard is on the cover and his virtual orchestra techniques are featured inside that issue).

basically, some people were doing great stuff years ago without the benefit of modern vsti and huge libraries. they employed private techniques to get results that were acceptable to them. you might not find them acceptable to you or they might seem too arcane to try.

this 'old skool' of orchestra techniques for samples is where products like the garritan personal orchestra came from. it's basically using techniques we used to do on old k-2000s and emulator 4s.

people post here somewhat desperately hoping somebody has got a magic technique for coaxing music and/or articulations out of the miro that sounds like what they hear from the ewqlso and vsl, etc. they are truly different beasts and the miro doesn't cost what those do. i find it works well for many compositions but i also own some of the other libraires i mentioned and sometimes only they can get a particular flavor i'm looking for (and sometimes NOT! :wink: ).
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

sliver
KVRer
13 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Post Tue May 20, 2008 9:59 am

Thanks for the info...seeing as this is the "Philharmonik Tips and Tricks" thread, you've effectively shot ANYONE down who's here to find some useful info. Not that I or anyone else doesn't appreciate the time and effort one has spent exploring the ways to manipulate the programs/gear that we have, but some helpful hints to get us going down the right direction is what we're here for. I'm sure anyone else searching around has/will stumble across this and know that one instrument (as with any software) cannot do it all; it takes some ingenuity to get some results...

Persoanlly, I think it would have been nice to see a few pointers from someone that has the experience that you do, hopefully you'll share some of that knowledge.

Cheers!

nexussynth
KVRian
538 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Post Thu May 22, 2008 1:02 am

sliver wrote:Thanks for the info...seeing as this is the "Philharmonik Tips and Tricks" thread, you've effectively shot ANYONE down who's here to find some useful info. Not that I or anyone else doesn't appreciate the time and effort one has spent exploring the ways to manipulate the programs/gear that we have, but some helpful hints to get us going down the right direction is what we're here for. I'm sure anyone else searching around has/will stumble across this and know that one instrument (as with any software) cannot do it all; it takes some ingenuity to get some results...

Persoanlly, I think it would have been nice to see a few pointers from someone that has the experience that you do, hopefully you'll share some of that knowledge.

Cheers!
sorry, i wasn't trying to "shoot anyone down" with my posting. i did relate a couple of techniques in the post and i have mentioned some other things here that i have done. but..

the simple matter is that there is NO replacement for a sampled articulation. some sample engines can do some neat things and others can't. STRETCH can do some things that kontakt won't. like changing vibrato rates realistically and making nice pitchbends. BOTH of which can be used to disguise (somewhat) the machinegun effect (i think i mentioned that before on this forum a couple years ago..). but there is only so much that can be done with programming techniques and tweaks. i ran into this situation on the garritan forum a few years ago, trying to make people understand that, but it always seem to provoke people and i'm accused of being 'negative' or a downer or somesuch. that is not my intention. these sample playback engines can only do so much and there is a whole 'nother layer of sound programming in the sampletank engine that is closed to us by intention of IK. squids and crew and can get in there and tweak stuff we cannot. hopefully this situation will change in the near future. the other thing is that the samples themselves are locked out to us (as most libraries these days). i used to process the samples and resave them to a new instrument to 'manufacture' a mock sample articulation you might say. but yes, there ARE still some few things you can do...

i'll tell you what works often on string attacks. layer another sample over your string attack in the miro (even from a different sampler, a synth or even a cheapo GM plugin). use volume to bring this in an out. it does work to disguise the attack from note after note. heres another..

render the part (string brass or whatever) to an audio track. then use a time-stretching utility in your DAW to slightly elongate the part. then use a track envelope to bring this in and out of the mix (keep the volume low). you might also have to shift this track slightly in time to get it to match. you might have a few glitches from the time-stretching but don't worry because your only using the attacks basically and mixing them in and out at a low volume anyway. this will probably also require you to alter the basic preset your using in the miro.

i could go on. my intention in the post was to tell people to experiment. after all, these sorts of techniques were often discovered by people who were not ace programmers and who were working alone in their studios and the results were not widely shared (back in the day).

well there! :)
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."

sliver
KVRer
13 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Post Thu May 22, 2008 1:22 pm

Awesome! I've been messing around with Miro and using a lot of routing to the modwheel to generate variations in the overall sound as it plays (for strings). I'll try alternating the velocities along with mixing other samples (I do have Kontact 2)underneath.

I don't blame you for your response, having tried a few things here and there with the program for a variety of different effects, was only wondering if there were some other things to try out, work from. But, Thank you again!

Are there any plans to update the Philharmonik plugin with additional features? (anyone?)

cheers!

me109
KVRist
401 posts since 5 May, 2004 from North Carolina

Post Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:52 pm

Here's an alternate fix for the lack of strings with a fast attack: Get ahold of the Symphony Strings Expansion Tank for SampleTank. I've only had it installed for a few minutes, but most of the strings there can play fast runs with very clear articulation. It may take a little tweaking if you want some of the sounds to be an exact match with Miroslav, but it's definitely another weapon in the arsenal, and it plugs right into the program.

Knoml
KVRist
151 posts since 16 Aug, 2008 from WA

Post Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:46 pm

Hey Kim!

Thank you for this thread. I just bought Miroslav Philharmonik. I noticed that you have a lot of tips involved in adjusting settings in Miroslav Philharmonik and I was wondering if you have some presets/combis you would like to share.
My
Drum N Bass music : )

Kim Lajoie
KVRAF
4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs

Post Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:48 pm

Knoml wrote:Hey Kim!

Thank you for this thread. I just bought Miroslav Philharmonik. I noticed that you have a lot of tips involved in adjusting settings in Miroslav Philharmonik and I was wondering if you have some presets/combis you would like to share.
I usually set up Philharmonik from scratch for each project, and tailor each instrument to the part I'm using it for. I don't have any presets or combis that I use.

Was there anything in particular you were interested in? Maybe I could put something together or help you do it for yourself?

-Kim.

Knoml
KVRist
151 posts since 16 Aug, 2008 from WA

Post Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:14 am

Kim (esoundz) wrote:
Knoml wrote: ...I was wondering if you have some presets/combis you would like to share.
I usually set up Philharmonik from scratch for each project, and tailor each instrument to the part I'm using it for. I don't have any presets or combis that I use.

Was there anything in particular you were interested in? Maybe I could put something together or help you do it for yourself?

-Kim.
Wow now that's great service! I can probably figure out how to set up your suggestions based on the well-written directions in your posts, but if I come across something that is particularly difficult, I will be sure to ask about it :)

Reverend Rhythm
KVRAF
2841 posts since 21 Feb, 2003 from Woodstock, GA USA

Post Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 am

Chris,

I think you have an awesome business there, and I think you're pricing tease is inviting. Also, impressive demos and credits. I hope you get a lot of business.

But... this topic is Philharmonic tips and tricks....

And... it's in the forum of the company that supplied the content for the Philharmonic plug-in.

I'm just saying....
esoundz name: ReverendRhythm

chris-melchior
KVRer
1 posts since 12 Jul, 2009

Post Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:18 am

Reverend Rhythm wrote:Chris,

I think you have an awesome business there, and I think you're pricing tease is inviting. Also, impressive demos and credits. I hope you get a lot of business.
Thanks very much. I wish I did know how to get a lot of business . . . I get very little, because I don't know enough about marketing! Unfortunately it is marketing that makes money, rather than the quality of the product.

Reverend Rhythm wrote: But... this topic is Philharmonic tips and tricks....

And... it's in the forum of the company that supplied the content for the Philharmonic plug-in.

I'm just saying....
OK, fair point! Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't realise . . . I just found this thread from doing a Google search on "string arranging" :)


Chris
REAL strings for REALISTIC prices.

http://www.chris-melchior.com/strings.htm

Squids
Sonic Reality Head Chef
8399 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida

Post Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:28 am

We deleted your post which is inappropriate advertising inside a sample company's forum. However, perhaps one place to mention it could be the "marketplace" forum on KVR where it is more general and acceptable.

That said we wish you all the best. I will add that I myself appreciate real players and if I ever have the budget to do so I wouldn't hesitate to hire a real string section or other ensembles for my music projects. Sometimes I may even use a combination of samples and real players so I can scale it to be any size for any budget which I know some people do as well. It's all good. Samples are good, live playing is good. Each has its advantages. Sampling may be good if it is recorded in a particular place as well, by particular engineers and with particular equipment... those sort of things may not be handy for budget live player sessions or at the very least they will always be different. That is one of the things that I love about sampling even if I will always appreciate live players regardless. I love capturing (like photography but with audio) the particular flavor of sound that comes from the combination of the musician, their instrument, the microphones, the engineer, the studio acoustics, the mic pre and the way they were directed so it can be used any time I want in music composition and/or production. I also love that I can hear strings and play the parts as closely to my vision as I can even though I play piano and not a string instrument myself. So do a lot of people and there's nothing wrong with that. It expands what people can do musically and it is inspiring. To me it doesn't replace the art of real live players. There are so many more expressive possibilities with live players that samplers just can't touch - and I mean this of ANY sample-based orchestral product including the fancy shmancy expensive ones! Live playing is live playing. Anything can happen. It's a beautiful thing. I love both.

So, now that you know more about KVR (we have official company forums here and then general ones) maybe you can drum up some biz perhaps by posting in the right place. If not, I would also work on search engine optimization so people find your site when THEY are searching in Google. ;)
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sinzero
KVRian
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Post Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:15 pm

thx for the tips!

btw, I love the Stnwy Piano Pedal patch in MP, but i noticed something funny...when I hold a 4 note chord, just as it starts to fade out, I hear a voice saying something like "it's just a short take." I might use that someday :lol:

sinzero
KVRian
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Post Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:26 pm

on AMV patches i'm not getting anything different with aftertouch. I didn't see anything about aftertouch in particular in the manual

:?:

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