Minor Menu improvements

[mutools]

For example, do the Split functions need to explain the difference between Index and Marker?

I think the tips should be rather brief. The docs atoh are extended. Explaining the difference between a Sample Index and a Sample Marker is too much for these info tips, imho.

Another question is the choice of terminology. For example, the tip for "Set Audio Start Here" is, The point at which you triggered this function will be set as the start position for the sample event. "Trigger" has multiple meanings in the M8 Docs: I can trigger an envelope, a midi note, a function, etc. Will that be unclear?

When the new info tips system is ready, i'll remove those brief menu item descriptions from the docs. So there will only be 1 place ie. integrated in MuLab/MUX. Now about the word "trigger": I used that because "right-clicked" is not always right because the function could be called using a shortcut key. So what about the word "called" so that would be "The time point at which you called this function will be set as the start position for the sample event".

OTOH, the importance for me is that function deletes the audio in the event before that point.

It does not delete the audio, it just makes the event start playing the audio from another offset.

[Michael L]

So what about the word "called" so that would be "The time point at which you called this function will be set as the start position for the sample event".

Thanks for considering my suggestions.
I am mostly thinking about tips being clear for new users, i.e. "call a function" is accurate, but is programmer jargon.
For myself, I actually like reading the M8 Docs which is why I suggested a link.

It does not delete the audio, it just makes the event start playing the audio from another offset.

That is a nice way of saying it. I was trying to discriminate between the sample, and the 'audio displayed in the event.' Terminology!

[mutools]

"call a function" is accurate, but is programmer jargon.

Ok so what about:
"The sample event's audio start will be set at the cursor's sample index"

[Michael L]

Ok so what about:
"The sample event's audio start will be set at the cursor's sample index"

I think you need to explain a sample index, but:

Explaining the difference between a Sample Index and a Sample Marker is too much for these info tips, imho.

Is it possible for tool tips to be more informal like the M8 Docs (e.g. "Set the cursor where you want the sample event to start”) but also brief?

[mutools]

Hey Michael I just now see that i missed your latest post, sorry.

No doubt that adding integrated help is a good thing. It can also be used for other info tips like brief description of modules etc. I'm researching some more about how and where to show them. That will also define how brief/detailed the info can be. Yes the diference between a sample index and sample marker also is important info. Feel free to continue posting suggestions about how & where to show the help info. And eventhough i may not react on each one, each constructive idea is much appreciated, and hopefully we'll find a well balanced solution.

[Michael L]

we'll find a well balanced solution.

Balance is a good word! I get it now-- a tip that tells what a tool does will keep users in the flow of action. Technical descriptions of what that tool is and how it fits in the big picture belong in the Docs.

[mutools]

Indeed. It makes me think that there even could be 2 levels of integrated help info:

* A brief info tip, 1 or 2 lines max.
* More extended info, can be mulitple lines, even a couple of alineas if relevant.

How to show that nfo, in a popup window or docked area, that's the question.

[sl23]

Well, if it's extended info, you're obviously making a concerted effort to find out how to do something. That effort is likely to be a detailed research attempt ie, not whilst mid-project, or an attempt to learn how to do a specific task during a project.

A popup is another window, one thing that is seriously annoying! My only gripe with MuLab is all the bloody windows! Grrr! I see why people have more than one monitor, but something I can't do.

From your perspective a popup is easiest I imagine? But for users, a popup will either get lost amongst all other windows, or cover a part of the screen which could be needed.

How I wish the Mux had a tabbed interface! Would reduce overcrowding considerably. Maybe one day?

[Michael L]

* More extended info, can be

...a labeled diagram as an overview of that section, to show how related features (e.g. index/marker) complement each other. Related tool tips would bring up the same extended-info-diagram. I like diagrams in M8 Docs more than text-only, but YMMV.

[heks]

* More extended info, can be

...a labeled diagram as an overview of that section, to show how related features (e.g. index/marker) complement each other. Related tool tips would bring up the same extended-info-diagram. I like diagrams in M8 Docs more than text-only, but YMMV.

That would take longer to implement wouldn't it? Tooltips are generally short and "tips" to inform the user and point them in the right direction. Diagrams would definitely be informative, maybe there could be a link in the tooltip to them, or possibly a small screen in the column on the right (the one with What, where, which), that changes with the tooltip. I think there will need to be a way to turn tooltips on/off though, once you know what your doing, it could become annoying ( I've found I'm looking how to turn them off in other DAW's after a while). Just rambling thoughts

[mutools]

How I wish the Mux had a tabbed interface!

I have a question: Imagine you start with a new project, so with a Basic Synth plugged in a rack by default. Now you open the Basic Synth editor. Would that have to open in a new tab? And the composer is hidden then? Please elaborate how you see this. Maybe link to other similar apps that use a tabbed UI that accelerates the workflow.

[mutools]

* More extended info, can be

...a labeled diagram as an overview of that section, to show how related features (e.g. index/marker) complement each other. Related tool tips would bring up the same extended-info-diagram. I like diagrams in M8 Docs more than text-only, but YMMV.

I agree that info graphics are very helpful. But if the help info is not text only it will cost extra R&D.

[mutools]

...or possibly a small screen in the column on the right (the one with What, where, which), that changes with the tooltip.

I think the browser area is generally not wide enough. What about having a docked info area at the right side of the rack desk. Of course that would make the rack desk area smaller, but it would be easy to toggle such docked info area between open/closed state. I'm just thinking loud here, did not yet think this thru.

I think there will need to be a way to turn tooltips on/off though, once you know what your doing, it could become annoying ( I've found I'm looking how to turn them off in other DAW's after a while).

I agree.

[sl23]

How I wish the Mux had a tabbed interface!

I have a question: Imagine you start with a new project, so with a Basic Synth plugged in a rack by default. Now you open the Basic Synth editor. Would that have to open in a new tab? And the composer is hidden then? Please elaborate how you see this. Maybe link to other similar apps that use a tabbed UI that accelerates the workflow.

I would suggest that MuLab, ie, the Composer/Edit/Modular areas, the Rack, Browser and Transport too, remain as the main window. When you open the Mux, Basic Synth in this respect, it opens a new window, as it does now. This window could then either have default tabs to access the Modular areas contained within this Mux or open a new window at the users request.

Sometimes you don't want tabs, so the option to open in a new window is required. Much like a dual pane file manager, or web browser, ala, Firefox or Chrome.

Opening other Mux's, front panels, Modular parts, maybe even VST's? Could have the same ability. Tho I suspect it might be too far to add VST's, I don't know. The essence of Tabs is to reduce screen clutter. So for example, creating a new Synth would take place in a Mux, maybe Mux's within Mux's All these could be tabbed to a single window. Should interaction between them be required, maybe click a button to remove the tab and open it in a new window.

Then there's the front panel, If it were tabbed it would make it simpler to locate and access it. I found on a full HD TV that I struggled with screen space when creating some of my humble efforts. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for those with smaller screens or those creating more intense Synth's.

I always find that you open a Mux, start adding modules, add a preset or two in the mix, open their front panels to see what exactly controls what, drag n drop to a front panel. All these windows are making it difficult to productively operate.

There is the 'Task Bar' to minimise windows to, but I found I was unsure what these minimised windows are without opening them. Maybe it's just me? But I feel if done correctly, I believe it would be a massive improvement.

I feel that as default, opening a Front Panel opens a window with two Tabs. One being the Front Panel the other it's modular area. If there are child user or factory presets included within this parent preset, then it's debatable on how best to precede as default. Some may want Tabs, others won't. So the default in this case should be a user option.

Just some ideas. Not sure if any good, but I think it's 'sound' excuse the pun!
Are you thinking this Tab idea might have some merit? I for one would so much prefer it. But I realise your circumstances all too well, so understand if you need to prioritise

But, thanks for the consideration, I appreciate that.

EDIT:Perhaps if you started by making the Front Panel and it's Mux as a dual tabbed window, this may alleviate things to begin with? We could test this to see if there's any issues. One that springs to mind is dragging a module to the FP! Maybe Drag to the FP Tab, then manually switch tabs to be able to move it? Better still, as in File Managers, Hover the module over the FP Tab and Tabs auto switch after a short delay so you can then place it where you wish to.

[Michael L]

I agree that info graphics are very helpful. But if the help info is not text only it will cost extra R&D.

We need all the R&D we can get!

I was thinking about info graphics as in the Docs (e.g. a screenshot with text bubbles) as a way to 'go up a level' with an extended tool tip, by showing newer users how features work together so "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

Personally, I read the Docs to get that overview, so I would get less value from tool tips. I could reduce time searching Docs if they were embedded as a text file and I Ctrl-click on a context menu to bring up its related Docs page, but that is just a convenience.

When I suggested that earlier, others said a Docs-page-tool-tip is too much info and will take them out of their creative zone, which is most important! But for me, a Docs page is just a reminder, so it's not too much. But not everyone reads Docs as much as I do.