Need both flat-response headphones AND audio interface

[tehlord]

There is an over-emphasis on the need for monitors to be flat. They need to be detailed, not flat. As long as you know them and they're detailed, they can be slightly coloured and it won't matter. What does matter is when 50hz sounds the same as 70hz (I call this the KRK factor)...

In any case, Beyerdynamic DT series headphones are simply the best choice by miles at this price point.

I would choose the Steinberg UR series over the Focusrite Scarlett range as well. Better build quality, better drivers and the mix/DSP/loopback software is very useful too.

[SparkySpark]

There is an over-emphasis on the need for monitors to be flat. They need to be detailed, not flat. As long as you know them and they're detailed, they can be slightly coloured and it won't matter. What does matter is when 50hz sounds the same as 70hz (I call this the KRK factor)...

In any case, Beyerdynamic DT series headphones are simply the best choice by miles at this price point.

I would choose the Steinberg UR series over the Focusrite Scarlett range as well. Better build quality, better drivers and the mix/DSP/loopback software is very useful too.

Hi, thanks for your input. Yeah, the KRK factor - I understand what you mean. I would have no idea what to do with a pair of RokIts, except for, I don't know... giving them away to charity?

You're right that "flat" is not the keyword here (which is why I think I didn't use it in my original post, at least I tried to avoid it ). What I - and probably anyone else - is after, is something - be it headphones or auto-plugins such as the Master Assistant of Ozone - that makes the mix TRANSLATE WELL to other systems.

On this topic, it's worth mentioning that Izotope's Tonal Balance Control is not after a flat curve at all - it's completely irrelevant just as you say - but it has used machine learning (I guess) to find the tonal balance of a few thousand hit songs in various genres. https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/leveli ... ntrol.html

Thanks for the audio interface and headphones input as well.

[SparkySpark]

I may have found the answer. According to Focusrite, every USB-powered Scarlett (even Solo) can drive headphones with at least 200 Ohms. The 712Pro is 62 Ohms, so it should work fine without an external headphones amp. (I guess the same is true for the Steinberg interface.)

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... interface-

It surprises me though that the impedance number is so low, when it is 250 in the DT-880's and 300 in the HD-600's.

[Ploki]

You know, i never bothered to check these numbers and all my headphones seem to work fine with most of holes

[ozonepaul]

All the headphones you suggested are great (in their respective price point), I would go with the 712 of those (it is reasonably easy to drive, it shouldn't be a problem for any decent interface headphone amp but obviously you need to check the exact spec sheets) but to be honest, your personal shopper would suggest something else! Here is what he would do:
1. He wouldn't buy any of the stuff brand new.
2. He would go for a Sennheiser HD650 used from ebay, you can get one for less than £200. This would be his pick in the £200 price range because as far as price/quality/neutrality/transient distortion/calibration handling ratio the HD650 is probably the best headphone.
3. Instead of the Scarlett/Solo, he would buy a used audient id4/14/22 again from ebay ( because of it's much better headphone amp + for your Aston mic incomparably better preamps in there than in the Scarlett). Or if you're lucky you can find the SPL Crimson 1st gen. on ebay for around £200-£250 which is a steal for the quality you are getting (a bit worse latency figures though than on the audient products).
4. Than later (when you've got some extra cash to burn) buy the Sonarworks software + brand new pads for your HD650 and than send it to sonarworks for calibration (150EUR + postage).
This way at the end you've got a phenomenal quality "mobile" setup for around £600.

[tehlord]

I have a few interfaces and my RME UFX will drive anything. However, on a second machine I have a Steinberg UR44 and my 250ohm DT770's work fine with that. I rarely have the headphone volume set to more than 50-60% and it's plenty loud.

Your interface would have to be pretty poor for this to be an issue these days.

[SparkySpark]

Your interface would have to be pretty poor for this to be an issue these days.

Ah, okay, thanks! Maybe I have read to many HiFi threads.

[SparkySpark]

All the headphones you suggested are great (in their respective price point), I would go with the 712 of those (it is reasonably easy to drive, it shouldn't be a problem for any decent interface headphone amp but obviously you need to check the exact spec sheets) but to be honest, your personal shopper would suggest something else! Here is what he would do:
1. He wouldn't buy any of the stuff brand new.
2. He would go for a Sennheiser HD650 used from ebay, you can get one for less than £200. This would be his pick in the £200 price range because as far as price/quality/neutrality/transient distortion/calibration handling ratio the HD650 is probably the best headphone.
3. Instead of the Scarlett/Solo, he would buy a used audient id4/14/22 again from ebay ( because of it's much better headphone amp + for your Aston mic incomparably better preamps in there than in the Scarlett). Or if you're lucky you can find the SPL Crimson 1st gen. on ebay for around £200-£250 which is a steal for the quality you are getting (a bit worth latency figures though than on the audient products).
4. Than later (when you've got some extra cash to burn) buy the Sonarworks software + brand new pads for your HD650 and than send it to sonarworks for calibration (150EUR + postage).
This way at the end you've got a phenomenal quality "mobile" setup for around £600.

Ah - look who's back - my favourite personal shopper!

Thanks, these are really good suggestions, and they make much sense to me (and hopefully to others who come across this thread). I will look into the eBay universe then!

[chk071]

Actually, i just ordered the HD-681 Evo's... curious how they compare with the HD-668B, but, i guess they're equally good.

Just to report back: Well... IMO, they're not as good. They suffer from what many headphones or speakers suffer from these days: Way too much bass, which layers over other frequencies, or simply muffles the sound. Also, the highs are quite shrill, but, that might rather be a thing where they need the "burn in" (even though i'm not sure how much that really makes a difference...).

I will send them back, and get another pair of HD-668B's, those are really well balanced in comparison, don't have a super ultra bass (even though they're definitely capable of a nice, and, especially, defined bass), and have a more clear and "3D" sound as well. Really, compared them side by side, and, they just sound better to me. That'll teach me.

[Passing Bye]

Just to report back: Well... IMO, they're not as good. They suffer from what many headphones or speakers suffer from these days: Way too much bass, which layers over other frequencies, or simply muffles the sound.

That's the reason I skipped Evo's, found bargain on regular 681's and pull the trigger, but later found out there's more "balanced" 681 B version, flatter 681 F version, seems regular 681 and B are heavier on the bass, not more than Evo's and much more than F, which are most linear ones.

[chk071]

Yep. As far as i read elsewhere: "Normal" version without B or F: hi-fi, with much bass. B = balanced, between neutral and hi-fi. F = Flat = neutral, should work best for studio work.

IMO, the HD-668 B are sort of the best of both world. I really enjoy listening to music with them, but, i also like them to play synths with. Especially, they don't have such a exaggerated bass. In the Evos, it really dampens the other frequencies, and makes the sound goes hollow, muffled, and somewhat narrow. I'm sure many would like them as hi-fi cans, for bass heavy music, but, even for that it's too much for me. They don't sound bad by any means, actually, the overall sound is close to the HD-668 B, it's just that they have too much bass for my liking, and the highs seem a bit harsh as well.

[Passing Bye]

Guess in the end of the day it's best to stick with the thing that suits you and you know well.

[ozonepaul]

There is an over-emphasis on the need for monitors to be flat. They need to be detailed, not flat. As long as you know them and they're detailed, they can be slightly coloured and it won't matter. What does matter is when 50hz sounds the same as 70hz (I call this the KRK factor)...

Completely off topic but I don't get why KRK has got this horrible reputation on Gearslutz.
In my experience the KRK Expose E8B is a phenomenal speaker (except that they are the heaviest speakers on earth, moving them around is a nightmare), they are as good as it gets in the high-ish end of the market. Also, in my opinion for their respective price bracket KRK's recent V gen.4 line of speakers are not bad at all, for example I 100% prefer the sound of the KRK V6S4 over the Adam A5X (they are priced similarly), perhaps I would even pick it against the Adam A7X (even though the Adams are roughly £300 more expensive/pair).
I agree, the Rokit speakers are clearly not as detailed as let's say any Genelec, Neumann, Adam, Hedd ...but they are a good 40+% cheaper than the cheapest respective model of any of those makes.

[Ploki]

Completely off topic but I don't get why KRK has got this horrible reputation on Gearslutz.
In my experience the KRK Expose E8B is a phenomenal speaker (except that they are the heaviest speakers on earth, moving them around is a nightmare), they are as good as it gets in the high-ish end of the market. Also, in my opinion for their respective price bracket KRK's recent V gen.4 line of speakers are not bad at all, for example I 100% prefer the sound of the KRK V6S4 over the Adam A5X (they are priced similarly), perhaps I would even pick it against the Adam A7X (even though the Adams are roughly £300 more expensive/pair).
I agree, the Rokit speakers are clearly not as detailed as let's say any Genelec, Neumann, Adam, Hedd ...but they are a good 40+% cheaper than the cheapest respective model of any of those makes.

Expose are VXT and now V predecessors right?
I only worked on VXT8s for a while, and i agree that they sound pretty good. I wouldn't pick them over Focal CMS, i would pick them over Adam A(X) line ANY day.

Rokits are just garbage tho.

[ozonepaul]

Completely off topic but I don't get why KRK has got this horrible reputation on Gearslutz.
In my experience the KRK Expose E8B is a phenomenal speaker (except that they are the heaviest speakers on earth, moving them around is a nightmare), they are as good as it gets in the high-ish end of the market. Also, in my opinion for their respective price bracket KRK's recent V gen.4 line of speakers are not bad at all, for example I 100% prefer the sound of the KRK V6S4 over the Adam A5X (they are priced similarly), perhaps I would even pick it against the Adam A7X (even though the Adams are roughly £300 more expensive/pair).
I agree, the Rokit speakers are clearly not as detailed as let's say any Genelec, Neumann, Adam, Hedd ...but they are a good 40+% cheaper than the cheapest respective model of any of those makes.

Expose are VXT and now V predecessors right?...

No, the VXT line was KRK's mid priced speakers while their Expose was their top of the line (they were more than £3000/pair).
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/krk-expose-e8b