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BertKoor wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:51 am My final advice: get a Mac. Under the hood it's Linux
It really isnt. Linux Is Not UniX. Mac OS is Unix; its even certified as such.
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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damn. edit dont quote, edit dont quote.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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Disclaimer : My Eurorack runs Linux.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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I'm the original poster. I'm sure you can tell by the length of this additional post.

I wish I didn't, but it seems I do have to reinforce a few things.

* About the TL;DR: that is always a rude thing to say from the get go. It's snarky, derisive, and comes from someone who admits to not even reading the text. But we are supposed to respect the TL;DR smart alec, who didn't even read it but is entitled to post his mockery. Twice. Nobody points that out, eh? I AM THE ONE who gets threatened by an admin. The irony only grows.

Besides, Linux requires an awful lot of reading. Anyone who thinks my "rant" is too long has no chance with Linux. You have to read manuals, howtos, forums and Google searches. That includes Wine. Getting it well configured isn't easy, but once you get it right, you're set for life.

* "No fact checking": that would have made me write three times as much. I've been using/testing/trying Linux audio applications for five years. Ardour, for example, looks pretty good and it is indeed very capable for recording and mixing. Composing not so much. MIDI is less than stellar, to mention one problem. Why don't you run a search? You'll likely find hits coming from their own support forum. What would I have to gain from making stuff up? If it were really good enough, I would be just happily using it. Besides, I've met quite a few people who use Windows or Mac for audio production. I know their preferences and expectations. I can say with a lot of confidence that they just WON'T find about 80% of native Linux audio applications even remotely acceptable. Put them in front of one and watch their reaction.

* "if one is coming to another OS just to use something that belongs to another OS, then they shouldn't move from that OS to begin with"
That is the one opinion that triggered me, but not here. Long before that. It was a Linux-only forum and some zealot posted that opinion in a derisive tone. I disagreed and the forum owner, who openly agreed with the zealot, DELETED my comment, the little hitler that he is. I shut up and left. I don't go there anymore. I have zero tolerance with censorship. Censorship is a written admittance of guilt and ill faith.

It's a VERY FALSE statement. I ran Reaper for a week and FL Studio for three weeks on Wine. I could easily complain about certain design decisions in either, but both were rock stable, EVEN MORE than many native Linux applications. Plugins certainly ran better, with almost no crashes or GUI glitches. More irony.

Another big and sad irony in all this is that it's easy to find people who get offended by my criticism of Linux applications but have no problem telling anyone who is willing to listen that the entire 26-year-old WineHQ project is a huge, preposterous waste of time and should be boycotted because some self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe decided that you shouldn't have the right to run cross-platform software. Because it's not kosher or whatever. Even though IT WORKS and can save you a lot of headache. Because of zealotry or ideology. My position has always been very clear-cut: to hell with ideologies. I care about music. If it works, it works, and that's the end of it for me. If it offends your religion, then just stay away from it. Live and let live. Wine exists and it's made to be used. I'm going to keep using it. I am one happy camper.

* "get a Mac" No, I won't get a Mac. Macs are horribly expensive to me and I wouldn't buy one even if it were dirty cheap. I can't stand the iron-fisted way Apple does things, I like the freedom and extreme flexibility of Linux. Linux is an excellent extension of myself. I love it and many things I love that were made for Windows run sweet sweet fine on Wine. It works. It doesn't offend my religion, so there is no reason to dismiss it. In fact, it solves many of the problemss I detailed in my mock-worthy, "trollish," "too long," "unsupported by facts" "rant." That "rant" is the summary of five years of experience. Can you use Linux to make music? Absolutely! Even if you use native software, you can do it. Many people do. It's just not the best way of doing it. I didn't just criticize the applications, I pointed out that Linux has a fundamental flaw that causes software to expire. It's a fact. Many newbies don't realize that. Now they know... if they read my "rant."

If some admin still thinks I should be censored for stating facts or even some of my opinion, whatever. I'm used to it. I did my part. Forums just aren't what they used to be anymore.

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Here it is: Move along. It's not written for people like you.
I agree that this was disrespectful and arrogant.
Such bullshit has to be reported, no doubt about it.

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roman.i wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 pm So why a potential VST/DAW developer will spend his time on supporting Linux?
I think this also deserves a reply.

Bitwig has a Linux version. Reaper has a Linux version. Ardour/Mixbus have Linux versions. Tracktion/Waveform have Linux versions. Are all those software houses wasting their time?

Well, maybe they are, but I disagree on WHY many people think they might be wasting their time. My opinions is this: developers, don't waste your time rebuilding it from the ground up. Just test your existing Windows version on Wine and make sure it runs. I'm sure it will be a lot easier than rewriting everything (or at least huge parts of it I suppose). Reaper and FL Studio are excellent examples. They run on Wine and they're both very popular. That they run on an additional operating system can only be praised and contribute to their popularity. No religions.

That one was short.

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lmv wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:41 am I'm the original poster. I'm sure you can tell by the length of this additional post.

I wish I didn't, but it seems I do have to reinforce a few things.

* About the TL;DR: that is always a rude thing to say from the get go. It's snarky, derisive, and comes from someone who admits to not even reading the text. But we are supposed to respect the TL;DR smart alec, who didn't even read it but is entitled to post his mockery. Twice. Nobody points that out, eh? I AM THE ONE who gets threatened by an admin. The irony only grows.

Besides, Linux requires an awful lot of reading. Anyone who thinks my "rant" is too long has no chance with Linux. You have to read manuals, howtos, forums and Google searches. That includes Wine. Getting it well configured isn't easy, but once you get it right, you're set for life.

* "No fact checking": that would have made me write three times as much. I've been using/testing/trying Linux audio applications for five years. Ardour, for example, looks pretty good and it is indeed very capable for recording and mixing. Composing not so much. MIDI is less than stellar, to mention one problem. Why don't you run a search? You'll likely find hits coming from their own support forum. What would I have to gain from making stuff up? If it were really good enough, I would be just happily using it. Besides, I've met quite a few people who use Windows or Mac for audio production. I know their preferences and expectations. I can say with a lot of confidence that they just WON'T find about 80% of native Linux audio applications even remotely acceptable. Put them in front of one and watch their reaction.

* "if one is coming to another OS just to use something that belongs to another OS, then they shouldn't move from that OS to begin with"
That is the one opinion that triggered me, but not here. Long before that. It was a Linux-only forum and some zealot posted that opinion in a derisive tone. I disagreed and the forum owner, who openly agreed with the zealot, DELETED my comment, the little hitler that he is. I shut up and left. I don't go there anymore. I have zero tolerance with censorship. Censorship is a written admittance of guilt and ill faith.

It's a VERY FALSE statement. I ran Reaper for a week and FL Studio for three weeks on Wine. I could easily complain about certain design decisions in either, but both were rock stable, EVEN MORE than many native Linux applications. Plugins certainly ran better, with almost no crashes or GUI glitches. More irony.

Another big and sad irony in all this is that it's easy to find people who get offended by my criticism of Linux applications but have no problem telling anyone who is willing to listen that the entire 26-year-old WineHQ project is a huge, preposterous waste of time and should be boycotted because some self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe decided that you shouldn't have the right to run cross-platform software. Because it's not kosher or whatever. Even though IT WORKS and can save you a lot of headache. Because of zealotry or ideology. My position has always been very clear-cut: to hell with ideologies. I care about music. If it works, it works, and that's the end of it for me. If it offends your religion, then just stay away from it. Live and let live. Wine exists and it's made to be used. I'm going to keep using it. I am one happy camper.

* "get a Mac" No, I won't get a Mac. Macs are horribly expensive to me and I wouldn't buy one even if it were dirty cheap. I can't stand the iron-fisted way Apple does things, I like the freedom and extreme flexibility of Linux. Linux is an excellent extension of myself. I love it and many things I love that were made for Windows run sweet sweet fine on Wine. It works. It doesn't offend my religion, so there is no reason to dismiss it. In fact, it solves many of the problemss I detailed in my mock-worthy, "trollish," "too long," "unsupported by facts" "rant." That "rant" is the summary of five years of experience. Can you use Linux to make music? Absolutely! Even if you use native software, you can do it. Many people do. It's just not the best way of doing it. I didn't just criticize the applications, I pointed out that Linux has a fundamental flaw that causes software to expire. It's a fact. Many newbies don't realize that. Now they know... if they read my "rant."

If some admin still thinks I should be censored for stating facts or even some of my opinion, whatever. I'm used to it. I did my part. Forums just aren't what they used to be anymore.
Cliff-notes, perhaps :shrug:













And yes, that's a cheeky little joke intended to get you to chill the f**k out.

----------------

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lmv wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:52 am Bitwig has a Linux version. Reaper has a Linux version. Ardour/Mixbus have Linux versions. Tracktion/Waveform have Linux versions. Are all those software houses wasting their time?
IMO, yes, if your target audience is that small. Of course, they should do what they do. But, in most cases, capacies are sparse, and you have to consider very well what you want to support. At worst, it could mean that the quality diminishes on all fronts.

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whyterabbyt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:18 am
BertKoor wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:51 am My final advice: get a Mac. Under the hood it's Linux
It really isnt. Linux Is Not UniX. Mac OS is Unix; its even certified as such.
Yep. I believe Darwin is essentially a BSD variant isn’t it?

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Doesn't the OS need a Linux kernel to be called Linux?

Not an expert... and frankly, don't care much either.

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I believe so, but Darwin doesn’t have a Linux kernel

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chk071 wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:28 am BDSM studio.
Is that a new DAW? :hyper:

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:lol:

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Forgotten wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:06 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:18 am
BertKoor wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:51 am My final advice: get a Mac. Under the hood it's Linux
It really isnt. Linux Is Not UniX. Mac OS is Unix; its even certified as such.
Yep. I believe Darwin is essentially a BSD variant isn’t it?
Yup. BSD hybridised with a Mach kernel.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

Post

lmv wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:41 am I'm the original poster. I'm sure you can tell by the length of this additional post.

I wish I didn't, but it seems I do have to reinforce a few things.

* About the TL;DR: that is always a rude thing to say from the get go. It's snarky, derisive, and comes from someone who admits to not even reading the text. But we are supposed to respect the TL;DR smart alec, who didn't even read it but is entitled to post his mockery. Twice. Nobody points that out, eh? I AM THE ONE who gets threatened by an admin. The irony only grows.

Besides, Linux requires an awful lot of reading. Anyone who thinks my "rant" is too long has no chance with Linux. You have to read manuals, howtos, forums and Google searches. That includes Wine. Getting it well configured isn't easy, but once you get it right, you're set for life.

* "No fact checking": that would have made me write three times as much. I've been using/testing/trying Linux audio applications for five years. Ardour, for example, looks pretty good and it is indeed very capable for recording and mixing. Composing not so much. MIDI is less than stellar, to mention one problem. Why don't you run a search? You'll likely find hits coming from their own support forum. What would I have to gain from making stuff up? If it were really good enough, I would be just happily using it. Besides, I've met quite a few people who use Windows or Mac for audio production. I know their preferences and expectations. I can say with a lot of confidence that they just WON'T find about 80% of native Linux audio applications even remotely acceptable. Put them in front of one and watch their reaction.

* "if one is coming to another OS just to use something that belongs to another OS, then they shouldn't move from that OS to begin with"
That is the one opinion that triggered me, but not here. Long before that. It was a Linux-only forum and some zealot posted that opinion in a derisive tone. I disagreed and the forum owner, who openly agreed with the zealot, DELETED my comment, the little hitler that he is. I shut up and left. I don't go there anymore. I have zero tolerance with censorship. Censorship is a written admittance of guilt and ill faith.

It's a VERY FALSE statement. I ran Reaper for a week and FL Studio for three weeks on Wine. I could easily complain about certain design decisions in either, but both were rock stable, EVEN MORE than many native Linux applications. Plugins certainly ran better, with almost no crashes or GUI glitches. More irony.

Another big and sad irony in all this is that it's easy to find people who get offended by my criticism of Linux applications but have no problem telling anyone who is willing to listen that the entire 26-year-old WineHQ project is a huge, preposterous waste of time and should be boycotted because some self-proclaimed Masters of the Universe decided that you shouldn't have the right to run cross-platform software. Because it's not kosher or whatever. Even though IT WORKS and can save you a lot of headache. Because of zealotry or ideology. My position has always been very clear-cut: to hell with ideologies. I care about music. If it works, it works, and that's the end of it for me. If it offends your religion, then just stay away from it. Live and let live. Wine exists and it's made to be used. I'm going to keep using it. I am one happy camper.

* "get a Mac" No, I won't get a Mac. Macs are horribly expensive to me and I wouldn't buy one even if it were dirty cheap. I can't stand the iron-fisted way Apple does things, I like the freedom and extreme flexibility of Linux. Linux is an excellent extension of myself. I love it and many things I love that were made for Windows run sweet sweet fine on Wine. It works. It doesn't offend my religion, so there is no reason to dismiss it. In fact, it solves many of the problemss I detailed in my mock-worthy, "trollish," "too long," "unsupported by facts" "rant." That "rant" is the summary of five years of experience. Can you use Linux to make music? Absolutely! Even if you use native software, you can do it. Many people do. It's just not the best way of doing it. I didn't just criticize the applications, I pointed out that Linux has a fundamental flaw that causes software to expire. It's a fact. Many newbies don't realize that. Now they know... if they read my "rant."

If some admin still thinks I should be censored for stating facts or even some of my opinion, whatever. I'm used to it. I did my part. Forums just aren't what they used to be anymore.
you were not threatened by me at all, I spoke of the thread and not you. Yes I quoted you because your post was the very type that will start a thread going in the wrong direction. It's a warning to all because that post was just the third post and already starting off wrong.
Hink wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:20 am excuse me?...people like? I'm gonna be blunt, we got a report complaining that your topic title was trollish but after reading the post and seeing how long it was I figured I would give it the benefit of the doubt. Then I get to this post and I'm just gonna say, if this is how it's gonna be it wont last.
If you notice I am not alone, we did get a report right away, ftr I'm not comfortable with all those red flags. If you want this to stay (which this has a lot of info and you put a lot of work into so that is my inclination), then understand my warning is not a threat and try to help me keep the thread on track.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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