How to balance Kick, Snare, Hats, Bass, Synths, Vox, etc ? please help....

[crimsonwarlock]

Kick (yeah I don't know what to do with it, it's either too low or too loud), that's like the main problem that hurts the ears, it's too "obvious" for lack of a better word, like you said "The two should feel absolutely natural together" - that's like my main goal, but I have no clue how to do this, at first I though maybe to add a little bit of reverb to it, to smooth it over kinda, but reverb made it feel even worse...

To get a good kick, apart of having a workable sound in the first place, is to use compression and also a good transient designer might help a lot.

You probably already have a compressor, just look for a kick-preset to get you started. As for the transient designer, Transpire by Sonic Anomaly is really good (it's my favorite) and completely free. Just drop it on your kick track and play with the controls, you'll hear what it does (and can do) as it's effect is pretty obvious.

A transient designer also works wonders on other percussive sounds and on bass.

[mjudge55]

which one is driving the tune ? lol, good question.... I'm not sure, I do know that some Perc sounds should always be in front (to keep the ethnic vibe I guess) along with Kick (yeah I don't know what to do with it, it's either too low or too loud), that's like the main problem that hurts the ears, it's too "obvious" for lack of a better word, like you said "The two should feel absolutely natural together" - that's like my main goal, but I have no clue how to do this, at first I though maybe to add a little bit of reverb to it, to smooth it over kinda, but reverb made it feel even worse... maybe there need to be a different Kick all together ? that's another question - how do you choose the right Kick to begin with ? I have like gazillion, it's very hard to find the right one.... a vocal is NOT the main part in there at all

When I talk about what is driving the tune, I'm talking about a songwriting/arranging issue: What's the hook? What's the motif that sticks in the listener's head or "sounds so cool" that the listener feels transported, emotionally, to another space by it? This is genre agnostic, and it doesn't have to be cheesy pop gimmicks -- even great death metal must have focus and emotional heft, and it comes from smart songwriting that prioritizes the musical ideas that draw in the listener.

Your basic, repeating four to the floor kick would rarely be this. Yes, it's a foundation and a genre "must" in some cases, and probably the element delivering the most dBs in terms of power, but it's like the foundation of a piece of architecture -- necessary, crucial, but not what compels.

If the snippet you posted is the gist of the tune then I think my original post saying "go back to the arrangement" is still on point. The tune does sound like the genre it's emulating, but the musical ideas aren't yet strong. I say this with respect and empathy, we all struggle with this.

But these songwriting/arranging issues definitely take precedence over the mix. The mix polishes the raw diamond. But if it wasn't a diamond in the first place, the mix will never make it one, and the mix isn't to blame either.

Next. When I say "the two [kick and bass] should feel absolutely natural together" I'm thinking about both arrangement issues and mix issues.

Arrangement:

- It's very difficult for two elements to occupy the same frequency range, pan position, and moment in time, and be audible against each other. So smart arrangers either don't allow the kick and bass to do this, either by selecting bass notes and timbres that sit above (bass) or below (sub) the kick, or by only allowing the bass to play when the kick does not. In your snippet, I feel the kick and bass both have this woolly low end going on, and they're on top of each other at certain times. They need to be differentiated sonically if you want to keep them occurring together at the same time. My suggestion for your genre is to pick a bass sound that sits above the kick in a way that is obvious to the listener -- that is why I suggested you open the bass synths filter a bit with the filter envelope. Just allowing a little more bright initial attack to shine through on that sound will bring it forward.

If you're going back to the drawing board with your kick, you may very well have to revisit your bass sound to make sure it sympathizes with the kick you find. Every decision you make with one element impacts the others, so there is no one "good bass sound" or "good kick sound". Instead there are kicks and basses that complement each other (and the other parts) well in a specific context, and any change in either of them changes that context requiring still more decisions. The way through this is by making deliberate decisions that have reasons behind them, e.g. "I chose this kick because it's subby with a snappy click, and I chose this bass because it sits in between the subby and click frequencies. I wrote the bass part around the four to the floor kick so that it grooved well, with certain notes establishing syncopation and groove, and with negative space that allow the tune to breath". The reason people are on you about presets is because using them shuts off the critical thinking you must do to make things work.

Mix:

If you simply must have a kick and bass going at the same time and occupying the same frequency range, you can try a couple mix tricks. This is well trod territory. NOT USING A PRESET, put a compressor with a side chain option on the bass. Feed the kick into the side chain so it triggers the compressor such that the bass volume decreases every time the kick hits. Dial attack and release on the compressor so the compression sounds natural and undistorted. Youtube is full of videos about this that will make it clear if it's not already.

Other mix tricks include dynamic eq'ing (triggering an eq cut on a specific frequency when another element is playing that frequency). Another trick is automating the volume of parts so they get out of each other's way.

As you learned, reverb usually isn't the way. Those neverb tails contain the kick and bass frequencies they're mixed on, smearing them out in time, creating more mud in your low end, which for this genre must be tight as F.

Sorry to go on. It's a never ending topic.

[olevish]

mjudge55 thank you, you put into words what I was thinking, sometimes it's difficult to explain the feeling in plain English....
but you managed
I especially like the "allowing a little more bright initial attack to shine through" that's poetry yo
I see you mention a compressor and a side chain, these 2 I kinda know what they are, but I have no idea how to use them,
and you're right, Youtube is full of these, but I like specific directions - this plugin and do this and that, if you'll just tell me to get a compressor - I'll be lost, just tell me what YOU would use if you were to make this, that's all .
and ok ok, I might've pissed a lot of people with the "preset" thing, that's not what I meant, at all, sorry .

and yes it is indeed a never ending topic... but it's a great one

[mjudge55]

mjudge55 thank you, you put into words what I was thinking, sometimes it's difficult to explain the feeling in plain English....
but you managed
I especially like the "allowing a little more bright initial attack to shine through" that's poetry yo
I see you mention a compressor and a side chain, these 2 I kinda know what they are, but I have no idea how to use them,
and you're right, Youtube is full of these, but I like specific directions - this plugin and do this and that, if you'll just tell me to get a compressor - I'll be lost, just tell me what YOU would use if you were to make this, that's all .
and ok ok, I might've pissed a lot of people with the "preset" thing, that's not what I meant, at all, sorry .

and yes it is indeed a never ending topic... but it's a great one

K here's the thing -- and again I say this with respect -- there are new producers and musicians out there who do nothing but this all day, no pay, just to learn some chops so maybe someday they might become good. They are hungry. While you and I ask for specific directions on KVR and waste time getting chewed out by (understandably) bitter folks who paid their dues, these hungry young monsters already found what they needed with Google and their tracks will eat ours for breakfast as a result. So Google is your friend.

Also, I repeat: Arrangement. Don't put the cart before the horse.

But you flatter me with that "poetry" bit so I'll talk about compressors. For sidechaining, I'd use pretty much any compressor that has the capability, starting with what came with my DAW, which in my case is Ableton Live. Suite version of Ableton has two compressors, with side chains, Compressor and Glue. There's a button beside either where you can expand the side chain section and there you'll see a dropdown of sources for the side chain. For the purposes we're talking about -- sidechaining a compressor placed on the bass track with the kick -- you'd select the kick track as the side chain source. Then you'd adjust the Threshold parameter down until you see the meter showing that every time the kick plays, the meter moves. This is the compressor clamping down on the bass sound, suppressing it's volume every time the kick plays. You want the Compressor set to its highest ratio, in the case of Glue 10:1, meaning that for every 10 dB the kick signal goes over the threshold, the compressor allows only 1 dB of volume. Then you want to adjust the Release parameter so that the clamping down eases off at a rate that sounds natural and doesn't cause distortion. The same with the Attack parameter, it determines how soon the compressor clamps down on the bass signal -- adjust until it sounds right. You can get several different kinds of effects with different attack and release settings so I can't tell you "10 ms, always 10 ms!". For this genre you're working on now, fairly fast attack and release will create an obvious "ducking" of the bass by the kick that is not uncommon in the genre.

Now people like to use different compressors for this, and I have many to choose from myself. But often you come back to what is near to hand. And so I'll just say that there's no point focusing on buying the "best" compressor because buying new toys means time wasted researching and learning them, so I just suggest using what's close at hand, especially when you're a newb at it.

Now don't be surprised if other posters pick the above apart and say I got stuff wrong, because I'm sure I did. It's hard to describe, like explaining how to give a haircut. Which is why you'd just be better off Googling a tutorial, there are so many fantastic ones.

Good luck.

[Unaspected]

mjudge55 thank you, you put into words what I was thinking, sometimes it's difficult to explain the feeling in plain English....
but you managed
I especially like the "allowing a little more bright initial attack to shine through" that's poetry yo
I see you mention a compressor and a side chain, these 2 I kinda know what they are, but I have no idea how to use them,
and you're right, Youtube is full of these, but I like specific directions - this plugin and do this and that, if you'll just tell me to get a compressor - I'll be lost, just tell me what YOU would use if you were to make this, that's all .
and ok ok, I might've pissed a lot of people with the "preset" thing, that's not what I meant, at all, sorry .

and yes it is indeed a never ending topic... but it's a great one

That's cool. You've redeemed yourself. Though I get you must have been quite frustrated when reality didn't meet expectations, I'm glad you're showing patience now.

A few years back, I wrote an article on how to quickly tune an audio compressor by ear, which might give some ideas: https://unaspectedstudios.wordpress.com ... ompressor/

It gives a rough overview of how compressors work, a technique for tuning and some tips for creative uses: side-chaining, de-essing, parallel compression and a few more.

Eventually, you won't have to think about these matters and that's when you can really entertain the creative aspects of mixing. You don't have to use the technique mentioned in the article forever - but it's a great way to get to grips with the attack and release controls.

[Tj Shredder]

I'd feel much more confident if I'd SEE it (maybe some vst plug screen...) and not only HEAR it, makes sense ?

No, not at all, close your eyes and listen. Its music, not a video...

it's NOT a skill, but a set of Tools everybody use but no one wanna talk about....

I can make a better mix without all those tools people talk about here at KVR in most cases... It does take time and its worth it...

But I see, my advice would be to get a teacher, you might have found already one in mjudge55... Often money is better spent on a teacher than on plug-ins...
It will move you faster to the fun part of making music...
And first of all, be welcome at KVR

[Benedict]

mjudge55 is giving almost word for word the advice I give. I am impressed.

Mr Shredder is also right, you are better off spending coin on a Teacher/Mentor than wildly buying Plugins or blowing time & neurons on 2-minute Tuts that cause more confusion than good, seeing they never actually answer the Why behind why you do/don't do a thing.

I have a lot of tutorials - Loooooong but all based around the very issues you present. I focus far more on the "why" than "where to put a knob".

This is essentially what people here are trying to get you to:
https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2015/09/0 ... aking-art/
https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2019/05/1 ... -of-music/
This Mix Walkthrough may be pertinent too;
https://youtu.be/xPA1tPHcOm4

[perfumer]

I see you mention a compressor and a side chain, these 2 I kinda know what they are, but I have no idea how to use them,

Are you f**king serious? Why are you wasting everyone's time here?

You are not, repeat, NOT at the mixing stage. You are at ground zero 'what's this? what's that?' stage. Once you pass that and already know what tool is doing what, you are at composition stage. Then sound selection stage. You say 'sounds don't sit well together' - no amount of mixing will solve this, if you haven't selected the proper sounds, in the first place. And only then, after putting down a lot of work, you arrive at the mixing stage. But if you don't know what a compressor or an equalizer is, you can't even start, to put it mildly.

You were given a great advice: think. Goes well with another one: read up, and then read some more. Oh, and DON'T ask for presets, that's plain wrong.

[perfumer]

BTW you have SSLChannel Stereo vst and don't know what a compressor is?!

And you're oversaturated with tools which might be a problem, you say?

Hmmm, that's

[Tj Shredder]

Regarding kicks - there are a zillion kicks floating around in the net. There would be no need to sculpt one which fits your bass line. The only reason that there are as well a zillion recipes to sculpt a kick is simply: If you know how to sculpt a sound, you are way faster getting a personal and perfect kick than wading through those zillion of kicks. Same is true for synth sounds. Drawback: if you don‘t know how to do it, the presets might still get you there faster, but in the long run its a waist of time better spent to learn - listening to sounds is also part of that process. I have seen sound engineers spend hours on the kick sound from a real drum. It was always worth it. Often the details make a difference, but you need time and experience to build your skills... (personally I don‘t care too much about kicks, my music does not need it, but I can tell if a kick is annoying... ; - )

[Mushy Mushy]

I haven’t listened to the snippet posted above because it’s a RAR and I’m on my phone. However judging by the comments the OP is making psy?

[ramseysounds]

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mix/neutron.html

Things like this are for people who can’t mix and don’t want to learn. IMO

OP asked for it.

Yep, I totally get that. My point was more a general one, not aimed at you

To the OP: just put some parallel limiters on your 2 buss and slam the crap out of it. Job done.

[thecontrolcentre]

slam the crap out of it. Job done.

[Unaspected]

But I see, my advice would be to get a teacher, you might have found already one in mjudge55... Often money is better spent on a teacher than on plug-ins...
It will move you faster to the fun part of making music...
And first of all, be welcome at KVR

I agree with this greatly. So far, I have spent (slightly) more money on tuition than gear and it helped vastly. I was already at a level where I understood how everything worked and had a little studio experience too but intensive mentoring and practical studio experience can't be beaten. Prior to that I bought every Computer Music and Future Music magazine and read all I could online for several years - I made a lot of music that no one should ever hear - but none of that compares to sharing space with a professional and learning the trade.

I would strongly recommend getting a grounding before taking any courses or tuition so that you can make the most of your time and money. I noticed a difference between those who had put work in prior to those who had only started learning a year or two ago.

That won't be the end of it either - that's just preparing you for a new phase.

Very early days for you, olevish - but the process can and should be really enjoyable. Frustrating too - but then the best things often are. No need to jack your hobby up to profession though - just enjoy learning the basics. It might not be for you and that's cool. As I already suggested, if you like making music, you can always find someone who loves the technical, engineering side to partner with.

No need to buy any plugins at this stage - everything in your DAW will be enough.

[xandde1]

I like using Hornet LUMeter autogain feature to make all my main elements have the same LUFS level to get a rough starting point. Klangfreund's LUFS Meter has a similar feature if you want to check it out. You'll need to tweak a little bit some of the elements (specially vocals and high frequency stuff). Hope it helps.

Another thing you can try is using the pink noise balancing technique (there are several videos on YouTube about it), but this one hurts my ears and takes away all the fun part of mixing IMO.

=)

Hello, I have a simple yet a very difficult question : how to balance it all in the mix ?
what's best and quick ways to make each instrument to sit on it's own frequency,
so the mix won't sound muddy and "too busy", how is it all done ?

thanks in advance