vocal mic in loudish environements

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I'm looking to get a good vocal mic (dynamic likely) that won't pick up too much background noise - I record in the same room as my laptop and it often goes into rocketship mode when I start recording. price wise I'd like to stay below 500.

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Condenser Mics are a no-go in an untreated room and/or noisy environment.

Like you said a dynamic mic is the way to go.

Even Michael Jackson recorded his voice with the dynamic Shure SM7 on the album Thriller.

I have the dynamic ElectroVoice RE20 with a TritonAudio FetHead in-line preamp for recording in untreated rooms. Great results.

But before you buy check them out!

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Etienne1973 wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:00 pm Condenser Mics are a no-go in an untreated room and/or noisy environment.

Like you said a dynamic mic is the way to go.

Even Michael Jackson recorded his voice with the dynamic Shure SM7B on the album Thriller.
I do wish people wouldn't trot out platitudes like this all the time. Yes, all things being equal, we'd all like fancy room treatments etc, but in the vast majority of cases a condenser mic is still going to give better results in capturing a vocal for recording than a dynamic mic. You can do a lot to minimise noise and reflection etc (another whole subject) but with good technique and a bit of knowledge of NR/gating etc, and things like not massively overdoing compression (using automation etc as much as possible) you can get decent results in non-optimal environments. At the end of the day a little bit of room sound isn't the end of the world anyway most of the time, since most people will be adding reverb on top.

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donkey tugger wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:24 pmbut in the vast majority of cases a condenser mic is still going to give better results in capturing a vocal for recording than a dynamic mic.
For me that's a platitude. :wink:

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Etienne1973 wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:27 pm
donkey tugger wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:24 pmbut in the vast majority of cases a condenser mic is still going to give better results in capturing a vocal for recording than a dynamic mic.
For me that's a platitude. :wink:
Touche! But generally the case..

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I agree with you that a good condenser mic captures more detail. Harmonics.
I agree with you that a good condenser mic has a balanced frequency response between a strong fundamental tone and harmonics.

Personally I made experience with some bad condenser mics under $500 with their hyped high frequencies and their weak fundamental tone support.

So I came to the conclusion: Better a good dynamic than a bad condenser mic.

No sarcasm! What good condenser mic under $500 in 2019 do you recommend?

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Dynamic doesn't always = inferior sound. There are a lot of artists recording with premium dynamics because they feel it works. Look into the Sm58 Beta, it gets lots of appreciation.

What are you using now? At a minimum consider trying the Behringer XM8500, it's like $20 these days:
https://amzn.to/2t3aG60

It's basically an SM58 with a slightly different eq curve. This technology is very old, so they are not expensive nor difficult to make. But the classic 58 sound is still a good mic for the right voice, and will work for most productions in a pinch, even instruments.


I use Shure SM86:
https://amzn.to/2D4AK5b

It's a stage small-diaphragm condenser. It's basically the compromise between dynamics that can handle a noise environment, but using a condenser capsule that increases the detail in the sound. I think it is a brilliant microphone, and Shure is very proud of it. It was meant to be the replacement to the SM58 but the world never adopted it. It rejects noise, pops, etc, almost as well as a dynamic but captures much more detail in the air registers.

You can here it in this live performance. Every vocal is on SM86:
youtu.be/LKJZQ7dbu14

In my experience that video shows exactly what it sounds like. It is missing some bass detail, but roughly in the area that most mixers cut out anyway. I like to keep some of that (or at least have the option) so I find it a bit annoying. But considering the compromise I'm happy with it. It lets me record in a semi-treated room without fuzz. (It still requires some treatment if you want studio-clean recordings).


Cheap large-diaphragm condensers
This is probably the best deal in the $300 range, the Roswell Mini K47:
https://roswellproaudio.com/products/mini-k47

Time and again I hear people with experience using expensive mics refer to this thing as competitive. I've seen people prefer it in some applications, like they are recording a new musician and bring out all the mics to hear which one works best for that person's voice, the Mini K47 comes out and is on equal footing to possible win that shootout. Sounds good for instruments too.

BTW, I would not buy a large-diaphragm condenser that costs less than ~$300. I don't think the world makes a good one in that price range. Nasty frequencies, bad dynamics, harshness, plosives, etc. Although I'm always open to learn about a new product :D

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Etienne1973 wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm I agree with you that a good condenser mic captures more detail. Harmonics.
I agree with you that a good condenser mic has a balanced frequency response between a strong fundamental tone and harmonics.

Personally I made experience with some bad condenser mics under $500 with their hyped high frequencies and their weak fundamental tone support.

So I came to the conclusion: Better a good dynamic than a bad condenser mic.

No sarcasm! What good condenser mic under $500 in 2019 do you recommend?
Well, like most things it's a matter of taste and what suits as much as anything, and of course I can only really comment properly on what I've used myself. I bought a Rode NT1 not long back and have been impressed by the low noise, lack of colouration and high end 'fizz' to it. But don't take my word of course, I'm just some bloke on the internet- a good fair review here (I generally trust SOS to know what they're on about);

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rode-nt1

For small diaphragm condensers my fave at the moment is the STC-1 by British company Sontronics. It was about £120 and whilst I bought it mainly use it for acoustic guitars (does a great job), I've done a few vocal bits with it and it sounds nice. Oh, and it comes in crazy carved wooden box as well...

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I would get the best large diaphragm condenser you can afford. Surround it with a reflection shield and a pop filter. Try to add as much sound dampening as you can to one small corner of the room, and sing with your back to that, facing out into the room with your mostly isolated mic. Keep the noisy laptop as far away as possible.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Etienne1973 wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:51 pm I agree with you that a good condenser mic captures more detail. Harmonics.
I agree with you that a good condenser mic has a balanced frequency response between a strong fundamental tone and harmonics.

Personally I made experience with some bad condenser mics under $500 with their hyped high frequencies and their weak fundamental tone support.

So I came to the conclusion: Better a good dynamic than a bad condenser mic.

No sarcasm! What good condenser mic under $500 in 2019 do you recommend?
The AT4033/CL is a perfectly serviceable LDC that sells for less than 500$ It isn't a cheap copy of some famous expensive mic like a U47 or anything like that. It is simple, sturdy and functional. It is what one recording engineer refers to as the Honda Civic of large diaphragm condenser microphones.

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I've just read a very interesting article about the importance that a vocal mic should always match a singer's unique voice: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/vocal-mics

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You can`t go wrong with an orginal SM 57/SM58.

With more budget, SM7b is also very popular.

The Beta 58a is build more for stage usage. It has a brighter Sound, less feedback and have more output. So it can give vocals on stage sometimes more power against band content.
It`s not a bug... it`s a feature!

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SM7b+cloudlifter handles my background noise very well

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we always use Shure SM58 mics. Used them live, and for recording -- in some crappy, crappy rooms, too.
They are cheap like borscht.

Caveat -- we make industrial music...
resistors are futile you will be simulated
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T4M

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Not to speak poorly about the SM58, I definitely recommend one for the toolbox (see Behringer XM8500), but there's enough missing detail there that it shows for vocals. On a guitar it was less noticeable in my tests, but on vocals when you really want some of that air to feel presence in the mix, the 58 style doesn't record much in the upper range.

Can definitely work for some types of music, and perhaps on some voices, but the difference with any type of condenser is quite noticeable. Also, not to say you can't be happy with a mix of SM58 vocals, there's some air in there if you boost, and ultimately it may sit perfectly depending on your song. Another positive is the SM58 seldom sounds bad. You may not prefer it when compared to more expensive mics, but it shows up for work every day and puts in a proud shift.

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