KVR Audio

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks Burillo and Berry.
I'm thinking we may all look at this subject from the wrong perspective. Most of us who use headphones for mixing probably worry the most about the final balance between bass, mid, and high freqs. Setting the headphones flat won't solve the problem, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Thus, I think that we could use pretty much any headphones we want, regardless of balance. Them, when we feel everything sounds good on the headphones, we could perhaps just look at a freq spectrum analyser, showing typical freq displays for various well known songs, and tweak the balance accordingly.

Wouldn't that be the best solution (next to have a great studio)? So: mix according to your ears, balance according to your eyes.

I know there are some plugs that do this, I just can't find the KVR thread on it right now.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:16 pm

BTW, since SACD was killed off by MP3 (!) and stereo equipment is almost extinct today, people don't really seem to care for optimum listening setups anymore. And so, it seems to me balancing is more important than other monitor specific checks or stereo equipment details (say a slight bump at 2kHz or an overly wide mix).

Of course, I am not relating to very sensitive music such as folk song recordings (which really needs a good studio anyway so phones are out) but more bread n butter electronica, pop, rock, and EDM.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:35 pm

I would personally advise on having at least this small set of speakers for reference beside headphones, they don't extend that low, they don't need to get loud, they don't take much space on desk, they don't need ideal acoustic space or will make problems.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/presonus_eris_e3.5.htm

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:29 pm

SparkySpark wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:08 pm Thanks Burillo and Berry.
I'm thinking we may all look at this subject from the wrong perspective. Most of us who use headphones for mixing probably worry the most about the final balance between bass, mid, and high freqs. Setting the headphones flat won't solve the problem, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Thus, I think that we could use pretty much any headphones we want, regardless of balance. Them, when we feel everything sounds good on the headphones, we could perhaps just look at a freq spectrum analyser, showing typical freq displays for various well known songs, and tweak the balance accordingly.

SparkySpark wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:16 pm BTW, since SACD was killed off by MP3 (!) and stereo equipment is almost extinct today, people don't really seem to care for optimum listening setups anymore.

IMO you have the right starting point but come to the wrong conclusion. the fact that every system is different is precisely why you need a good reference - be it neutral reference monitoring setup, or neutral reference headphone. most everyone listens your stuff on crap setup, but they're not listening it on the same crap setup - there's a wide variety of crap setups, each coming with their own crappiness, so it is important to have a good reference - so that crappiness of your system is not added to crappiness of their system.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:15 am

Hmmm... intreseting thread! I agree with the advice on Presonus Eris. Incidentally, here's a roundup of tiny monitors for bedroom musicians: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... r-the-pair

The most intriguing of the monitors mentioned there are the IK Multimedia iLoud ones. Look at their freq response chart! Incredibly flat for that size.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:20 am

When I bought my own 8 inch monitors in ca 2006 I was lucky enough to be able to do a blind test between the fifteen most used monitors in the studio of the Estrad store, Stockholm. I brought some well mixed CDs (Lennox Diva, Robyn My Truth, Kraftwerk The Mix, and a few others).

I was astounded by how different they sounded from each other! At the end of my listening session I made a list of my preferences. It read like this:

First place: Mackie HR824.
Second place: Behringer Truth.
Third place: Event 20/20.
...
Last: KRK RokIt (not strange since the are not flat) and before that some JBL monitor. Not surprisingly I went with the inexpensive Behringer.

The moral of the story is that one cannot but monitors (or probably headphones) on reviews only; it is a highly subjective choice.

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:57 am

Exactly, my suggestion was mainly, add some speakers into equation for the reference sake, I know plenty of people have no space, room or conditions, so these smallest ones will be good companion for headphones, not break the bank (Eris 3.5 go for 100 bucks), fit almost everywhere and on moderate volumes could be played in any room and surroundings without affecting or bothering anyone.

lebred · Post by **lebred** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:19 pm

Pretty sure M50 with correction is the ultimate choice here. Tried the Beyerdynamic headphones and didn't like them. Now using AKG Q701 but the ATH-M50 are still amazing. Can't go wrong.

Obsolete317542 · Post by **Obsolete317542** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:13 pm

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lebred · Post by **lebred** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:24 pm

Yeah I didn't mean to make an official statement here. Just trying to help OP with my own experience. Didn't mean to hurt feels. You're 100% right about it coming down to taste. It's known that the idea of "perfect" headphones is ludicrous. I was glad to buy the DT 770 on Amazon, give them a good spin and return them when I realized I really didn't like their sound.

ATH-M50 with correction is cheap (OP has tight budget), comfortable, decent noise canceling and pretty flat. It's great for closed back headphones, even though I think open back headphones (good ones) are superior for mixing.

For monitors I use Adam A7 and Focal Shape 65, which is what I use for most of my work. The headphones I mostly use to get a second perspective on mixes when I need it.

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:59 pm

A freind has the DT 770 pro 80 ohm and the few times I used them I was very impressed. I believe it was that the detail was superior to my older AKG's and Sony.

What is the lowest price for the DT 770 pro 80 ohm headphones ever advertised?
Is it possible to get them for under $130?

reggie1979 · Post by **reggie1979** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:01 pm

One thing to keep in mind about some of these cans is that some hype the low end. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you want something that doesn't do that?

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:34 pm

reggie1979 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:01 pm One thing to keep in mind about some of these cans is that some hype the low end. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you want something that doesn't do that?

Exactly, who h brings me back to my statement that the main issue with headphones only mastering is how to get the correct balance. I think most of us agree headphones alone cannot do it safely.

Unfortunately the same applies to small (maybe even five inch?) monitors. ...and to bigger monitors in the wrong setting, like a poorly treated studio (not to mention a bedroom).

Perhaps the next best thing to a good studio or sending away the mix is the iLouds: they are so close to the person that room ambience does not matter much. The new iLoud MTM is interesting and sort of marries a monitor with Izotope software, but boy are they expensive (350 €).

Obsolete317542 · Post by **Obsolete317542** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:43 pm

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SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:56 pm

Eclectus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:43 pm plenty of millionaire producers mix on KRK's

Maybe they just like yellow

Best closed back mixing headphones under £150