General advice needed

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I've been trying to make the older kind of trance and progressive house (roughly 1999-2004) for a few years now, but I feel like I'm at a dead end, mostly because I still have very little in terms of actual production skills. I didn't go through any kind of course when I started, I just got a DAW and started messing around with it until I learned what little I have so far. I struggle a lot with sound design in general, and even when I do manage to create a usable synth etc., it's very basic. Based off the feedback I have been getting, I also haven't been EQing well, which is something I can't seem to properly put into practice.

Another problem I seem to have is that I just can't make anything complex-sounding, a lot of the tracks I've been listening to have modulated synths and percussion loops which I have no idea how to replicate. I've considered just going back to basics and finding a course that teaches music production from the ground up, but I have no idea what courses/tutorials/websites would be relevant. Could anyone point me in the direction of something I could use? I know it's a bit of a broad question but I've been really frustrated with my lack of progress.

Any advice and the like would be appreciated!

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1999-2004 is also interesting period to me, but mostly sounds of these days were simple and not covered by modern tutorials. To get these, you need to use synths that were available in this time. In particular supersaw from JP-8000 and acid from TB-303 are genre-defining for trance, but old Junos, Jupiters and Nord Lead would do as well.

Keep in mind that music at that time was not produced in-the-box, people used a lot of sequencers and simple multitrack recorders.

On the other hand, sound design is covered by presets nowdays. Modern synths come with so many presets you don't need any sound design to get a finished tune. In particular, I made this one from presets only: https://www.beatport.com/track/dreams-o ... x/10876152

As to mix... years an years of research and practice. People who know stuff don't give it away for free :hihi: EQ topic, however, is entirely covered by Izotope Tonal Balance Control.
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Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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You didn't mention your harmony/composition/arrangement skills, which easily tend to get in the way of obtaining a good track way before taking it to sound design and mixing stage. Maybe you didn't mention it because you're already set-up for that, but it is often a very overlooked aspect for many bedroom producers who at times might be looking at problems from the wrong perspective.
About composing, learning the basics of harmony applied to actual keyboard playing can boost your composition process, big big time.
A drumpad controller like the MPD218 can also be a great tool for creating the beat/loop structure



SOUND DESIGN and synth programming (as well as music theory and mixing) is an incredibly vast realm.
It just takes time to actually understanding the basics, then learning the actual synth you plan to use.
http://www.syntorial.com goes through the basics (although pretty extensively) of subtractive synthesis with interactive synth programming and ear training tutorials. I would personally recommend it, although not super cheap at first glance.
Another thing you could try is going though presets of softsynths you own and opening another initialized instance, literally copy the settings realizing what adds what to the final sound of the patch.

About "sounding too basic", which you mentioned. Good tracks are made of miriads of layers adding to the global sound. They were arranged properly so that instruments work well together within the full frequency range, but many of those instruments are made of multiple layers as well.
You might try to make a synth pad/bass patch and realize it sound too basic compared to what you hear in commercial tracks, but in that case the pad/bass was possibly made of 2-3-4 synth layers on top of each other which made the whole sound fuller and complex.


MIXING.... first off make sure you either have a treated room with good monitors, otherwise good flat headphones are your best bet.
90% of mixing revolves around well thought and intentional choices on track levels and panning, equalization and dynamic range management (compression/limiting).

Fabfilter produced a few very informative vids about the basics of equalization and compression, which although they barely scratch the surface, they are very clear in explaining what's going on.

EQ
part1 - youtube.com/watch?v=_fDg_pgit5c
part2 - youtube.com/watch?v=47ZBiowAVdI

COMPRESSION
part1 - youtube.com/watch?v=BIVfpsoPnOo
part2 - youtube.com/watch?v=ebHGH3k7g4I
part3 - youtube.com/watch?v=FE_8-Q6CZXE


YouTube can cover almost anything, but it is extremely dispersing environment
http://www.groove3.com is a good all-rounder at the most affordable price, with very good tutorials on literally any topic

other good tutorial websites, you could subscribe for a month or two would be
http://www.adsrsounds.com/courses
http://www.theproaudiofiles.com/members


Last thing, a very good tool to make more informed EQ choices is TrainYourEars2 (http://www.trainyourears.com)
It costs about $50 and it is an interactive software with a pretty wide range of EQ quizzes.
I have to say it really unlocked something in my head/ears as far as getting familiar with specific frequency ranges, which ultimately ends up helping you in the mixing process.
You can get EQ quizzes on their exercise files or you own audio files.

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Thanks for the various suggestions, I'll give them all a try
DJ Warmonger wrote:To get these, you need to use synths that were available in this time. In particular supersaw from JP-8000 and acid from TB-303 are genre-defining for trance, but old Junos, Jupiters and Nord Lead would do as well.
To be absolutely honest I hadn't thought much about that, I've just been using the synths included with Reason since I started. I'll try and get my hands on some plugins then.

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Niowiad wrote:You didn't mention your harmony/composition/arrangement skills, which easily tend to get in the way of obtaining a good track way before taking it to sound design and mixing stage. Maybe you didn't mention it because you're already set-up for that, but it is often a very overlooked aspect for many bedroom producers who at times might be looking at problems from the wrong perspective.
Now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure if my skills in that area are enough. I played an instrument for several years, so I like to think I've got the music theory side sorted at least.
If it'd help as an example, here's what I think is my best production so far in terms of, well, pretty much everything: https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/iv ... ound-remix

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DJ Warmonger wrote: Keep in mind that music at that time was not produced in-the-box, people used a lot of sequencers and simple multitrack recorders.
Anyone tried running Cubase 1.0 in an Atari emulation yet? :hihi:

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Buy some courses from Udemy. They are cheap and really good. Covers most topics.

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The track sounds fine mixwise, as a modern production, but if you want an early 90s sound the drums are too loud (especially the hats) and its too compressed imho. Nobody was mixing itb back then. You needed hardware synths, a mixing desk and outboard FX. Chances are you'd be recording to tape (possibly DAT if you were rich) which would all add up to a high noisefloor and tape hiss. Why anyone would want to sound like that in 2018 is beyond me :shrug:

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thecontrolcentre wrote:Why anyone would want to sound like that in 2018 is beyond me :shrug:
What can I say, it's just the kind of music I want to make. I don't care about making money from it or anything, most of it is just for my own personal enjoyment.
As for compression, I don't know where I'm going wrong then, I've barely used compression at all so far (I still don't quit understand what it does and when to use it).
thecontrolcentre wrote:an early 90s sound
It's actually early 2000s I was going for

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TW1306 wrote:
thecontrolcentre wrote:Why anyone would want to sound like that in 2018 is beyond me :shrug:
What can I say, it's just the kind of music I want to make. I don't care about making money from it or anything, most of it is just for my own personal enjoyment.
As for compression, I don't know where I'm going wrong then, I've barely used compression at all so far (I still don't quit understand what it does and when to use it).
I wasn't referring to the music. I was talking production values. Things have changed a lot over the last 15-20 years. If you really don't understand compression at all (or any other production techniques) its best to avoid it until you know what you're doing imho.

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thecontrolcentre wrote:If you really don't understand compression at all (or any other production techniques) its best to avoid it until you know what you're doing imho.
I'll take a look at the resources people have suggested and hopefully I'll get a better understanding of things

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Where are you based?

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TW1306 wrote: ...a lot of the tracks I've been listening to have modulated synths and percussion loops which I have no idea how to replicate...

Any advice and the like would be appreciated!
Got two questions to you:

When did you start making music?
And how do you listen to music, what's your self-talk when listening - which questions do you ask yourself?
aka rktic. demoscener, sound designer, ux-dude, human synthesizer—not necessarily in that order.

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don't lend money to relatives.

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Ronny Pries wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:37 am Got two questions to you:

When did you start making music?
I actually started with a very basic program called eJay, which didn't allow you to do much more than arrange premade loops and samples. That was in 2014, and I made a couple of very basic tracks. I started with a proper DAW (Reason 7) about a year later, but it's only been very recently that I actually started to get a proper idea about what I was doing and apply things like EQing and sound design.
(For what it's worth, I was 13 when I started, 18 now)
Ronny Pries wrote: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:37 am And how do you listen to music, what's your self-talk when listening - which questions do you ask yourself?
If you mean when listening to other people's music, mostly I try to get an idea of how the levels are balanced, and how various elements are mixed/EQed (though to be honest there's a fair amount of "I really wish I was at this level" too).

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