FL Studio migration - DAW for my specific workflow

[frnsh]

Hey guys,

first off, sorry for another this kind of topic, but I’m really starting to get lost in all of the DAWs I’ve tried so far. Second, this is my first post, so thanks for running this forum.

To my question — I’ve been using FL Studio actively for ~2 years and I really love it for making all kinds of beats.
The problem comes with more complex projects. As I locally work with rappers as a producer as well as their sound engineer, it often happens that my project file contains both the whole mixed beat with routing and active FXs as well as all of the effected, routed and sidechained vocals audio tracks.
FL Studio doesn’t seem to handle these big files well.
The automatic plugin delay compensation starts to be inaccurate every single time and setting it up manually drives me crazy. The mixer console also isn’t the best for this specific workflow. Also, the customization tools are terribly limited.

CPU isn’t an issue for me and I love the flexibility to tweak various settings or the beat here and there throughout the song creation process. That’s why I try to avoid bouncing the tracks/midi and usually have just one final render during the whole song production.
I’d describe my general workflow as making the beat, recording the vocals, then tweaking the beat around the vocals a little bit more and finally mixing and mastering.


So far, I’ve tried Reaper, which I admire for the amazing customization options, but I feel like the beat creation/MIDI options isn’t that enjoyable, intuitive & fast. Overall, I just feel it isn’t the best pick for a beat production. I could use ReWire, but having the whole beat in one audio track isn’t that comfortable and I’d have to fire up the rewired FL studio everytime I’d want to tweak something. Plus it’s really ugly lol (themes didn’t help) and the stock plugins lack the visual GUI which I got quite used to.

Studio One is another option alongside with Cubase (which is the only one I have not tried yet). I haven’t spent that much time in Studio One - the trial version is rather short for me and the Prime version is really way too limited. Is there anyone who uses it for the kind of all around workflow I described earlier?

How about the Cubase for the all around large project file process? Would the Artist version be enough for my needs? I’m still a student and can’t really afford the Pro version, not happy about the 0.5 paid updates either.

Now, I have quite a few options available and I know there isn’t the overall winner, but I’d like to take any opinion of yours or maybe someone with the similar or even the same workflow could share his experience.

Which solution would you guys recommend?


Thanks alot!

[Kongru]

I've used all of the DAWs you mentioned, currently using Reaper but you're right, Reaper isn't great when it comes to aesthetics and MIDI. You can patch it up to a degree with scripts but it sounds like you want something more ITB. Also Reaper doesn't include any content and has limited included plugins. It does have a built in Melodyne alternative but I haven't used it so can't feed back on if it actually works.

Cubase is a feature packed DAW but you might find it overkill for beat making. The Pro version is very expensive, and I found the lower versions too limiting. It does have the best MIDI on the market though (imo). It can do absolutely everything, but I've found that overwhelming personally. CPU is stable and Cubase can easily handle large projects, although I found routing to be a PITA.

Out of the ones you mentioned, I'd say Studio One fits your needs best. The MIDI is decent, the sampler is great for slicing up breaks, it has some cool scale features. Best of all, it's available on Splice Rent to Own so you don't have to pay all at once (however I've seen the Pro version going for $150 on here.) The downside is that S1 doesn't handle large projects very well and is still a bit buggy (all DAWs are to a degree). For large projects Cubase and Reaper are definitely the way to go.

I forgot to mention that Cubase Pro has VariAudio (built in Melodyne alternative) and Studio One has Melodyne Essential. One thing you'll notice is that Cubase and S1 copy each other's features, as some of the devs that worked on Cubase then went on to work on S1.

The elephant in the room is Ableton. The MIDI kinda sucks (it's somewhat similar to Reaper's) but working with samples feels so good in it. Incredibly expensive though.

[andypryce]

+1 Studio One
Built in pattern editor, note repeat, decent drum machine and sampler and fast workflow.

[Kongru]

+1 Studio One
Built in pattern editor, note repeat, decent drum machine and sampler and fast workflow.

I forgot about the pattern editor. SO GOOD.

You can draw in a drum pattern, then randomise how often some of the hits play. Great for programming hi hat loops.

[Elektronisch]

Which FL Studio version are you using? after some point release of 20 imageline drasticly improved Auto PDC which doesnt give problems anymore with even hardware synths, works out of the box.

Now FL is on 20.6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0MqGMs ... =emb_title

[middle_color]

Cubase has crossgrade option: if you have license for some other qualified DAW you can get Cubase cheaper. Sometimes Cubase has 50% sale (raaaare).

Studio One also have (or had?) crossgrade option - you should check it yourself. Also Studio One goes for sale sometimes.

Ableton: sometimes has 25% sale. You may find deals from resellers: Push 2 + Ableton Suite/Standard for the price of Push. Ableton is weak is in comping, which may be problem if you record vocalists (you don't have comping in FL now anyway).
There was reports that sometimes Ableton does not handle Plugin Delay Compensation (as you described about FL).



> I’m still a student
Check with all DAWs next thing. Most of them (probably all?) have special "educational license". Which is cheaper BUT you will have to be careful legally re-selling it - you must check terms of conditions withing every specific DAW.


I am using both: Cubase and Ableton. Which is telling you something . There is no perfect DAW.

[xbitz]

I would choose the rent-to-own construction of S1 https://splice.com/daws/38650984-studio ... y-presonus $16.99/mo.for 24 months

[EnGee]

Yes Studio One 4 Pro is very good indeed and you can find it for a good price here in KVR 2nd hand market (Sell & Buy forum).

But there are even cheaper options and still a good Pro choice. First, Bandlab Cakewalk is free and it is a fantastic DAW. It has a great mixer with excellent effects. The midi is ok (not on par with Cubase though), but functional.

Second, is Samplitude X3 Pro(or X4). I bought a license (X3 Pro) some months ago for only $90 here in the 2nd hand market! I think it is the best DAW for mixing and mastering. It has great effects and I doubt you need any 3rd party effect for it! However, it has a higher learning curve than Cubase (IMO).

Personally, I use Bitwig Studio 3 which is the best for me, but my projects are small, so I don't know how it handles big projects. It is also more expensive than Studio One (a little bit) in the 2nd hand market. It has the best workflow and the fastest way to get inspired and get recording midi/audio. It is also a modular heaven for unlimited creativity.

[codec_spurt]

...

[frnsh]

Which FL Studio version are you using? after some point release of 20 imageline drasticly improved Auto PDC which doesnt give problems anymore with even hardware synths, works out of the box.

Still sitting on 12-ish version. Didn't feel like upgrading until now - 20.6 looks fire.

[frnsh]

Cubase has crossgrade option: if you have license for some other qualified DAW you can get Cubase cheaper. Sometimes Cubase has 50% sale (raaaare).

Studio One also have (or had?) crossgrade option - you should check it yourself. Also Studio One goes for sale sometimes.

Ableton: sometimes has 25% sale. You may find deals from resellers: Push 2 + Ableton Suite/Standard for the price of Push. Ableton is weak is in comping, which may be problem if you record vocalists (you don't have comping in FL now anyway).
There was reports that sometimes Ableton does not handle Plugin Delay Compensation (as you described about FL).



> I’m still a student
Check with all DAWs next thing. Most of them (probably all?) have special "educational license". Which is cheaper BUT you will have to be careful legally re-selling it - you must check terms of conditions withing every specific DAW.


I am using both: Cubase and Ableton. Which is telling you something . There is no perfect DAW.

I'm well aware of the EDU versions, shame (or not) I already occasionally work comercially, which if I'm not mistaken is prohibited on student licenced DAWs.
Imma check those crossgrades out and see if I apply, thanks.

[frnsh]

I would choose the rent-to-own construction of S1 https://splice.com/daws/38650984-studio ... y-presonus $16.99/mo.for 24 months

I see. Do you have to be an active Splice subscriber to use their rent-to-own?

Not sure if it's worth for me anyways, my local European authorized dealer offers S1 Pro for $370.

[dellboy]

Cubase is overkill. It's a great DAW, but you will be tied to a dongle (full version) where as S1 gives you 5 authorisations. Anyway, for what you want to do, Studio One will do it all pretty much. Cubase won't offer anything particularly extra for the extra hassle.

I own both and hardly ever touch Studio One.

I like having a dongle.

Cubase has been doing midi drums for 500 years and has beat designer - Groove agent - and a dedicated drum track. You can also use Halion SE to make drums. And of course you can still use the step sequence to do it the old school way.

DAWs are a subjective experience, like what flavour of ice cream do you like best.

I agree with you that the main advantage of Studio One is the cost. Cubase can be expensive.

[Passing Bye]

Bitwig would be my choice for beat making solely, but for recording, mixing, editing and etc, guess would pick between Logic or Cubase, would gravitate towards Logic if all that involved laptop at some point. (opposed to just work inside of studio)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUHcYX1-9Y8

IMO, nothing beats Macbook and Logic on the go, it's insane how stable, optimized and featured that combo is for music production.

[pottering]

I'm well aware of the EDU versions, shame (or not) I already occasionally work comercially, which if I'm not mistaken is prohibited on student licenced DAWs.

Ableton Live's educational license allows commercial work. It is just like a normal license, only difference is when you want to transfer it to someone else, that person has to be eligible for the educational discount too.

Live's PDC has one problem, it is not random or unexpected, it happens in very specific circumstances, is 100% predictable, and Ableton acknowledged it and explained it in Live's manual and in the Help section in their site:

"Built-in device modulation synced to the Live transport (i.e., synced to a specific beat-time position) is not compensated"

It causes problems if you have a latency inducing plugin before devices synced to the transport, because those devices start immediately with the transport, while the audio before it is delayed by that latency inducing plugin.

It is predictable, preventable and easily fixed by the user (a mere phase or offset adjustment will solve it in many situations, making the synced device match the delayed audio).

It is not really a "bug", it is a conscious choice, since there are (M4L) Live devices that load as "audio FX" but can be used to modulate stuff before it, like instruments or even MIDI generators, so delaying those with PDC could actually delay the generation of events or sounds too (kinda like a feedback loop).

Ableton had to choose one, they chose to keep it simple and keep everything that is synced to the transport (even audio devices), well, synced to the transport.