FL Studio vs Bitwig

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mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:38 am Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw. Where have you been? :zzz: I can’t comment about its workflow is good or bad. But that is that. Original version isn’t necessarily better.
You mean the programmers and employees that left Abelton and formed Bitwig? I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game. Heck Live was still stuck at 32 bits till Apple forced them to add 64 bit plugins, I think your opinions are a bit too emotional? Bitwig, Live and FL are all great and different people will have favorites. Doesn't mean one is "over hyped." The Grid is mind blowing but not everyone will even care. Its alright. Some are preset surfers and a few create their own sounds it doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Sorry but I don’t have enough information about bw’s current improvement to get emotional. I just commented about the history of the software like cloning lives GUI structure, showing modular GUI long before the DAW even released, etc.

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mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game.
That's like saying that an ant is competition for an elephant :hihi:

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Reefius wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:44 am
mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game.
That's like saying that an ant is competition for an elephant :hihi:
I don't think Ableton has upped its game (V10 wasn't all that revolutionary and dint copy any of Bitwigs better features like in clip editing), but it is very well know and very solid for what it does (and what it does it does well). They are focused on 'clips' and playing Live (particularly with PUSH) and they seem to be doing well with that!

Bitwig has taken a different direction since it was launched and although it can do the live clip stuff and has racks (so do other DAWS now like DP) it is a different tool with different advantages to Live (not better, different). As someone who works a lot with CV and MPE and loves the simplicity of the unified modulation system, Bitwig is ideal for me, but others have different priorities....I don't use 'loops' much and am working with a lot of CV hardware.

What I personally like about BWS is that they dare to think differently and constantly surprise me. Despite the stupid plagiarism comments (which can be applied to any DAW) they have actually done more original innovation than the other DAWS I own and seem to be marching to the beat of their own drum. They get a lot of criticism for that as well, so you cant win, but BWS seems happy to be niche and creative rather than just another DAW.

Live didn't gain a lot of mainstream popularity until V4 when they added midi. I think as MPE, touch control and CV sequencing (with the advent of all the cheap analogue CV stuff) become more common, more people will find and appreciate BWS.

FLS has also very much gone its own way, and I think that's great and why it is very successful...as I said, not for me but that doesn't mean its not ideal for others....just like BWS!
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 am
mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:38 am Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw. Where have you been? :zzz: I can’t comment about its workflow is good or bad. But that is that. Original version isn’t necessarily better.
You mean the programmers and employees that left Abelton and formed Bitwig? I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game. Heck Live was still stuck at 32 bits till Apple forced them to add 64 bit plugins, I think your opinions are a bit too emotional? Bitwig, Live and FL are all great and different people will have favorites. Doesn't mean one is "over hyped." The Grid is mind blowing but not everyone will even care. Its alright. Some are preset surfers and a few create their own sounds it doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Sorry but I don’t have enough information about bw’s current improvement to get emotional. I just commented about the history of the software like cloning lives GUI structure, showing modular GUI long before the DAW even released, etc.
Thank God they didn't clone Lives GUI- BWS has both clip and linear 'on the same screen' and has in clip editing of audio, a pop up browser etc- in many ways the GUI is more more like Studio One (which was built by many of the people that left the Cubase team at Steinberg!)
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:07 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 am
mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:38 am Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw. Where have you been? :zzz: I can’t comment about its workflow is good or bad. But that is that. Original version isn’t necessarily better.
You mean the programmers and employees that left Abelton and formed Bitwig? I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game. Heck Live was still stuck at 32 bits till Apple forced them to add 64 bit plugins, I think your opinions are a bit too emotional? Bitwig, Live and FL are all great and different people will have favorites. Doesn't mean one is "over hyped." The Grid is mind blowing but not everyone will even care. Its alright. Some are preset surfers and a few create their own sounds it doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Sorry but I don’t have enough information about bw’s current improvement to get emotional. I just commented about the history of the software like cloning lives GUI structure, showing modular GUI long before the DAW even released, etc.
Thank God they didn't clone Lives GUI- BWS has both clip and linear 'on the same screen' and has in clip editing of audio, a pop up browser etc- in many ways the GUI is more more like Studio One (which was built by many of the people that left the Cubase team at Steinberg!)
You can describe however you want. But it’s too obvious to deny bw cloned Lives GUI structure.

There a DAW which has session view, horizontal Device and View, and Drum rack in it. Let’s clone this and pretend we referenced s1 *facepalm*

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tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:02 pm
SLiC wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:07 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 am
mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:38 am Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw. Where have you been? :zzz: I can’t comment about its workflow is good or bad. But that is that. Original version isn’t necessarily better.
You mean the programmers and employees that left Abelton and formed Bitwig? I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game. Heck Live was still stuck at 32 bits till Apple forced them to add 64 bit plugins, I think your opinions are a bit too emotional? Bitwig, Live and FL are all great and different people will have favorites. Doesn't mean one is "over hyped." The Grid is mind blowing but not everyone will even care. Its alright. Some are preset surfers and a few create their own sounds it doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Sorry but I don’t have enough information about bw’s current improvement to get emotional. I just commented about the history of the software like cloning lives GUI structure, showing modular GUI long before the DAW even released, etc.
Thank God they didn't clone Lives GUI- BWS has both clip and linear 'on the same screen' and has in clip editing of audio, a pop up browser etc- in many ways the GUI is more more like Studio One (which was built by many of the people that left the Cubase team at Steinberg!)
You can describe however you want. But it’s too obvious to deny bw cloned Lives GUI structure.

There a DAW which has session view, horizontal Device and View, and Drum rack in it. Let’s clone this and pretend we are original. *facepalm*
Yeh, and Ableton 'Cloned' the arranger page from Cubase....I am not sure why you care so much but it has absolutely nothing to do with making music.

I want a DAW to be the best bits of all DAWS....(just like everyone copied Cubase original, they came up with most of the concepts we all use including VST) - tale a look at DP10 for example- look familiar? https://motu.com/products/software/dp/ Clip launching is in many DAWS now, even FL!! I
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:06 pm
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:02 pm
SLiC wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:07 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:24 am
mtelesha wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:42 am
tooneba wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:38 am Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw. Where have you been? :zzz: I can’t comment about its workflow is good or bad. But that is that. Original version isn’t necessarily better.
You mean the programmers and employees that left Abelton and formed Bitwig? I think Bitwig has clearly been the competition that has caused Live to up their game. Heck Live was still stuck at 32 bits till Apple forced them to add 64 bit plugins, I think your opinions are a bit too emotional? Bitwig, Live and FL are all great and different people will have favorites. Doesn't mean one is "over hyped." The Grid is mind blowing but not everyone will even care. Its alright. Some are preset surfers and a few create their own sounds it doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Sorry but I don’t have enough information about bw’s current improvement to get emotional. I just commented about the history of the software like cloning lives GUI structure, showing modular GUI long before the DAW even released, etc.
Thank God they didn't clone Lives GUI- BWS has both clip and linear 'on the same screen' and has in clip editing of audio, a pop up browser etc- in many ways the GUI is more more like Studio One (which was built by many of the people that left the Cubase team at Steinberg!)
You can describe however you want. But it’s too obvious to deny bw cloned Lives GUI structure.

There a DAW which has session view, horizontal Device and View, and Drum rack in it. Let’s clone this and pretend we are original. *facepalm*
Yeh, and Ableton 'Cloned' the arranger page from Cubase....I am not sure why you care so much but it has absolutely nothing to do with making music.

I want a DAW to be the best bits of all DAWS....(just like everyone copied Cubase original, they came up with most of the concepts we all use including VST) - tale a look at DP10 for example- look familiar? https://motu.com/products/software/dp/ Clip launching is in many DAWS now, even FL!! I
Can you stop projecting your feeling to me? You care about me added my insight to previous conversation about its hype and similarity. You couldn’t ignore it.

And you missed the part of “a daw ~” in previous post and threw absurd vst and linear track example to smear the point. You seem caring so much :party:

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You stated that 'Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw' and wonder why people who use and really like Bitwig call you on it?!'

Your right however, I should ignore ignorant troll bate, its unbecoming.
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:50 pm You stated that 'Bitwig in well known overhyped plagiarized Live clone daw' and wonder why people who use and really like Bitwig call you on it?!'

Your right however, I should ignore ignorant troll bate, its unbecoming.
As I said you can describe however you want and call undesirable opinion troll but I tried to add my point with historical event and structural similarity that can’t accidentally happen without cloning one existing product specifically. It’s too obvious to deny this. And you said you want a DAW to be best bits of all daw but you can go back to my original post and see that I’m not judging which daw has better functionality as daw.
Last edited by tooneba on Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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On balance, probably better being named in honour of a breakfast cereal, rather than part of a hairpiece.

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xbitz wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:12 am
Halonmusic wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:34 am
inkwarp wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:28 am
Halonmusic wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:35 pm
xbitz wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:35 pm FL hasn't got clips (launcher) based workflow, so if you would prefer this workflow choose BWS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHI-BHKk8o
Yes it does. Since v11 or 10.
Yes, it's called "performance mode"..
xx JPRacer xx wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:31 am The "performance mode" in FL is to launch clips, not for recording.
Indeed.
it records the content of the clips into the arranger section of the performance area just can't record midi in the same time (so u can't record MIDI stuffs during the loop playback doesn't good for composing only performing)

>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uubnmqOPsq4
so it's ok but there is no MIDI recording at the same time
True.
EnergyXT3 - LMMS - FL Studio | Roland SH201 - Waldorf Rocket | SoundCloud - Bandcamp

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I bought BW on the cusp of 3.0.3 and have been using it ever since, albeit not exclusively. What I don't love about the 'year of free upgrades' is that it is very unlikely that things like bugfixes and 'missing' functionality will get backported.

Bugfixes without question should be merged in to every applicable version, reason being this is what you claimed your software could do and it couldn't. When I say 'missing' functionality I don't mean things like groove pool, comping etc that are obviously not implemented, I mean things like device support. While I am a huge fan of the extension engine the state of device support is downright embarrassing for a DAW that is on its third (3) major release version. Moss' efforts are heroic but even with the DrivenByMoss extension I can't, for instance, use a Beatstep the same way in both Bitwig and Ableton. I can't use a MidiMix without editing code, and even then there are issues.

I think device support should be a major priority and I don't believe upgrade purchases should be necessary for users to get it. Grid? Yep. Comping and groove pool? Sure -- more than fair game as upgrade bait. I'm just not convinced the basics are getting enough attention, and I'm not convinced that BW itself is in a state where it can be requiring paid upgrades for bugfixes, device support, etc.

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dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am I bought BW on the cusp of 3.0.3 and have been using it ever since, albeit not exclusively. What I don't love about the 'year of free upgrades' is that it is very unlikely that things like bugfixes and 'missing' functionality will get backported.
True.
dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am ...While I am a huge fan of the extension engine the state of device support is downright embarrassing for a DAW that is on its third (3) major release version.
To blame here are partly, if not fully, the device manufacturers, who ignore Bitwig because of lack of popularity. They develop for the more established DAWs first.
dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am ... I'm just not convinced the basics are getting enough attention, and I'm not convinced that BW itself is in a state where it can be requiring paid upgrades for bugfixes, device support, etc.
True.
Major downside to Bitwig are the expensive upgrades prices, if you want to stay up to date and pay them yearly.

Back to the topic of this thread: Who knows what the future brings, but in the present time I choose Bitwig, even if it has lesser features than FLS.
Because workflow wise (to me), Bitwig is the future, FLS is the past.
FLS has this old-school clunky UI and workflow paradigm with floating windows, menu diving, and a general disorder. You have to put in some effort to stay organized in FLS, if you care about an organized project in the first place. :hihi:
While the new GUI of FLS 20 is nice, it's still like putting lipstick on a pig.

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“Can I continue using the software after my upgrade plan expires?
Yes, you can. This is not a subscription; you own a perpetual license. The upgrade plan is only required for access to the latest release.
Will I get bug fix updates after my upgrade plan has expired?
Yes, all minor updates will be available to you until the next major update. So if you are on version 2.3.1 when your plan expires, you will be able to download and use 2.3.2, 2.3.3, etc. But version 2.4 will be unavailable until you renew your upgrade plan.”

I have Live 10 Suite and Bitwig 8 track and I don’t know what these guys have done to me but I just want to upgrade my license even if I have to get rid of Live and put that money towards a full blown BWS license... the visuals and the whole workflow itself... just so tempting, the colours, the look of different elements, the way I can modulate parameters are just lovely... more follow actions for the clips and a bit deeper routing capabilities are much needed though.

The future? ALK 2 on iPad :D arranged live looping

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anoise wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:50 am
dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am I bought BW on the cusp of 3.0.3 and have been using it ever since, albeit not exclusively. What I don't love about the 'year of free upgrades' is that it is very unlikely that things like bugfixes and 'missing' functionality will get backported.
True.
dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am ...While I am a huge fan of the extension engine the state of device support is downright embarrassing for a DAW that is on its third (3) major release version.
To blame here are partly, if not fully, the device manufacturers, who ignore Bitwig because of lack of popularity. They develop for the more established DAWs first.
dirtysnow wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 am ... I'm just not convinced the basics are getting enough attention, and I'm not convinced that BW itself is in a state where it can be requiring paid upgrades for bugfixes, device support, etc.
True.
Major downside to Bitwig are the expensive upgrades prices, if you want to stay up to date and pay them yearly.

Back to the topic of this thread: Who knows what the future brings, but in the present time I choose Bitwig, even if it has lesser features than FLS.
Because workflow wise (to me), Bitwig is the future, FLS is the past.
FLS has this old-school clunky UI and workflow paradigm with floating windows, menu diving, and a general disorder. You have to put in some effort to stay organized in FLS, if you care about an organized project in the first place. :hihi:
While the new GUI of FLS 20 is nice, it's still like putting lipstick on a pig.
+1 FL is comfy only as a scratchpad me too, 1-3 patterns 1-8 channels, couple of internal controllers
as the project getting bigger FL also getting more and more uncomfy
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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