Ableton is everywhere...

[dupont]

You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
Keep it simple !
Also when you have an instrument rack with folder within folder within folder ... good luck to find a plugin in this mess.

[oneway]

You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.

What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
Keep it simple !

And conversely, just because the signal chain is complex doesn’t mean the musical result is deficient.

Honestly DAW choice has nearly nothing to do with the “musical result” so this is pretty irrelevant.

[tooneba]

But it is also true that most formulaic boring music as if it came out from the training course are often turned out to be produced on ableton.

[dupont]

Honestly DAW choice has nearly nothing to do with the “musical result” so this is pretty irrelevant.

On the contrary I think a DAW influence your music as hardware do.
I tend to use what is easier with each DAW : if automation is a pain, I will not use it, If drums editing is poor, I will make simple pattern, if it is patten based DAW, music will be more mechanic, If audio editing is a mess, I will not use it ...
Acid music would have never been without TB303.

[pottering]

You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?

Extremely weak argument.

Mere insults to people's music.

[oneway]

Acid music would have never been without TB303.

Sure, but the TB303 is a synth with a sequencer. A DAW is more like a mixer, a tape machine, a midi sequencer combined. It depends heavily on the instruments you use inside of it. In popular music today the sheer amount of instruments being layered means that the flexibility of a mixer is, for some people, more important than its efficiency/speed.

As many people have stated, that's a big reason why "Ableton is everywhere". If you don't get it, fine, I'm used to more traditional workflows and mixers so I never clicked with it. I just think it's in poor taste to casually say that people doing more routing in their mixer are coming up with worse musical results. The two have nearly nothing to do with each other.

[tooneba]

You can do crazy think on Ableton that are technically impressive but who care if the musical result is poor.
I saw a video from an Ableton certified trainier who explained how to cut an audio loop, spread this loop in several tracks, apply different audio effects and audio gate for each track.
What a mess, who would use that in his song ?
Keep it simple !
Also when you have an instrument rack with folder within folder within folder ... good luck to find a plugin in this mess.

It’s similar to my impression of IDM genre. Overproduced jumbling random noise lined up on beat.

[FarleyCZ]

Didn't read the whole topic yet and as a windows user, I have never tried Logic. BUT! Ten years back, when I was switching between DAWs, I couldn't help myself, FL Studio and Cubase that I tried to rock for few months each, just overwhelmed me with the amount of dedicated windows and dialogs. When I saw that one (and a half) window layout of Ableton, I was sold and never looked back.

Also, back then, in Cubase, you had to add midi track, add audio track, load a plugin into a "VST rack", route midi from the midi track into the plugin, route audio from the plugin to the audio track and ONLY THEN you could press a note and hear somethig. This two minute operation shrunk into three seconds in Ableton. There wasn't anything to think about. Happy Ableton user ever since.

[perfumer]

Also, back then, in Cubase, you had to add midi track, add audio track, load a plugin into a "VST rack", route midi from the midi track into the plugin, route audio from the plugin to the audio track and ONLY THEN you could press a note and hear somethig. This two minute operation

This is not true since forever. In Preferences you can tick the option to auto create a midi track when inserting a plugin - which is sufficient in most cases, unles you're loading a multi-timbral plugin. Audio track and outputs are auto created and you don't need to do it manually at all - unless you're loading a multi-output plugin. Then you have several clicks more. But multi-timbral and multi-output plugins are a hassle in every DAW - including Ableton, so...

[reggie1979]

All I know is that when doing Live, it was a mess. Man, how I got on with this mess eons ago is a mess. Messes that are messes, that is what Live is to me, sorry to those who like it, but it's a mess here!

[tooneba]

While Live is trying to be less click and less window managing, ironically I have to move piano roll boundary up and down every time I engage and quit. If not, I end up dealing with stupid looking clip view.

[dupont]

Extremely weak argument.

Mere insults to people's music.

indeed, your reply is helpful and strong.

[dupont]

As many people have stated, that's a big reason why "Ableton is everywhere". If you don't get it, fine, I'm used to more traditional workflows and mixers so I never clicked with it. I just think it's in poor taste to casually say that people doing more routing in their mixer are coming up with worse musical results. The two have nearly nothing to do with each other.

In my opinion it's also due to a clever marketing strategy. How many tutorials done by pretty sexy girls, i would say 70 %.
How many artists payed to say they use Ableton ?
I know how it works because I have been contacted by a daw compagny to say I use there product.

I also agree, Ableton is currently not my favorite DAW but that it can be for other musicians.
I want to understand why they find it so special.
For me this is frustrating DAW.

[FarleyCZ]

Also, back then, in Cubase, you had to add midi track, add audio track, load a plugin into a "VST rack", route midi from the midi track into the plugin, route audio from the plugin to the audio track and ONLY THEN you could press a note and hear somethig. This two minute operation

This is not true since forever. In Preferences you can tick the option to auto create a midi track when inserting a plugin - which is sufficient in most cases, unles you're loading a multi-timbral plugin. Audio track and outputs are auto created and you don't need to do it manually at all - unless you're loading a multi-output plugin. Then you have several clicks more. But multi-timbral and multi-output plugins are a hassle in every DAW - including Ableton, so...

What I forgot to mention is that the version of Cubase I wqs talking about was ancient SX3. ...and if the option was even there too, I'm willing to take the blame of being an idiot of the decade.

[jonljacobi]

No, the option wasn’t there. An odd arrangement until you were used to it, then it was easy to see how to send multiple tracks to the same device.