Ableton is everywhere...

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
pottering
KVRian
771 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:00 am

dupont wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:39 am
pottering wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:17 pm
dupont wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:50 pm
here is a objective review about live https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... Suite.html

That's not an "objective review" about Live.

In fact, the entire site is not objective, in any way, about any of the DAWs mentioned.

The methodology is not objective, the writing is not objective, the way he stealth-edits posts is not objective, even the picture he chooses are not objective.
I think you are not objective and don't accept criticism of your beloved DAW, i could not find any bad points about Live in his review. It is like the never ending debate of Apple fanboys who don't bear there expensive mac is not the best.
Are there cons in Live ?
Except my comment was not only about his reviews about Live.

I'm saying HIS ENTIRE SITE is not objective, about ALL DAWs he reviews.

There is not a single drop of objectivity in that site.

The very first category in his DAW chart ("Installation") is ludicrous and a huge giveaway.

In fact, the whole pretense of "fairness" and "objectivity" is very telling by itself.

elxsound
KVRAF
5336 posts since 18 Aug, 2007 from NYC

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am

Who the f**k cares about all this shit.

I've used almost all available DAWs at some point on both Win and Mac (sorry Linux, I'm not f**king with that), and guess what... nobody gave a shit about what OS or DAW I used.

Nobody cared.

Look at this f**king forum with names going to back to the 2000s, (yes some of us getting old) among new users all voicing what they're using (you're all gonna get old too).

You have to tell people what you use, because nobody cared before you told them.

And afterwards, nobody is going to give a shit.

Unless you wrote something memorable, I'm sure as not going to care or give a f**k to remember your username, let alone what your favorite DAW and preferred OS is.

Time for some f**king coffee. :party:

User avatar
thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25214 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:26 am

elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Time for some f**king coffee. :party:
:lol: :tu:

deastman
KVRAF
7271 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:34 am

elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Nobody cared.
I care. :hug:
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

User avatar
Autobot
KVRian
595 posts since 27 Mar, 2013

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:33 am

You are right... I've just checked my computer and even there is Ableton Live... F*ck! Now I'm sure there is a invisible omnipotent power out there controlling us. Fuc*!
I grew up on a junkyard, where I started to feed from hubcaps and bumpers

User avatar
Autobot
KVRian
595 posts since 27 Mar, 2013

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:33 am

deastman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:34 am
elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Nobody cared.
I care. :hug:
I don't.
I grew up on a junkyard, where I started to feed from hubcaps and bumpers

reggie1979
KVRAF
1883 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:34 am

elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Who the f**k cares about all this shit.

Have you tried Reaper yet?

machinesworking
KVRAF
1903 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:36 am

Autobot wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:33 am
deastman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:34 am
elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Nobody cared.
I care. :hug:
I don't.
It's probably because you grew up in a junkyard. That's gotta have an effect on you.

reggie1979
KVRAF
1883 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:40 am

machinesworking wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:36 am
Autobot wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:33 am
deastman wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:34 am
elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Nobody cared.
I care. :hug:
I don't.
It's probably because you grew up in a junkyard. That's gotta have an effect on you.
Quiet, nobody cares





































:hihi:

User avatar
thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
25214 posts since 27 Jul, 2005 from the wilds of wanny

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:11 pm

reggie1979 wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:34 am
elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Who the f**k cares about all this shit.

Have you tried Reaper yet?
:lol:

chk071
Suspended
22458 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:19 pm

elxsound wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:23 am
Who the f**k cares about all this shit.

I've used almost all available DAWs at some point on both Win and Mac (sorry Linux, I'm not f**king with that), and guess what... nobody gave a shit about what OS or DAW I used.

Nobody cared.

Look at this f**king forum with names going to back to the 2000s, (yes some of us getting old) among new users all voicing what they're using (you're all gonna get old too).

You have to tell people what you use, because nobody cared before you told them.

And afterwards, nobody is going to give a shit.

Unless you wrote something memorable, I'm sure as not going to care or give a f**k to remember your username, let alone what your favorite DAW and preferred OS is.

Time for some f**king coffee. :party:
In the age of influencer marketing, it gets more and more important... ;)

You're right of course. Nobody should care. Even though it made my decisions what to demo a bit easier first. But, i "sure as f***" wouldn't just use a DAW because everyone does. Or noone.

tooneba
KVRian
1192 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:08 am

dupont wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:50 pm
andypryce wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:52 am

Reaper, Nerdy
Don't understand why Reaper is nerdy ?
Reaper is far more powerfull than Live.
I currently work on techno tracks project and quicly struggles with live limits : no option to split midi drum clips by note row, no ghost clips, no track manager, no events list, no mixer in arrange view, more clics to open a plugin or assign a CC, no possibility to undock stock plugins, dummy clips for automation, poor midi editing, automation doesn't follow notes move...
In my option Live is good for live sets with loops and push but not to finish a track. Tracks are finished in more conventionnal DAWs.

I have already tried several times Live but each time I feel frustrated by it's limitation.
Reaper is 60 $ and Live is 600 $ but is not 10 times better than Reaper !!!

here is a objective review about live https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... Suite.html
Live is like playing golf with 5 clubs while other big name DAWs like cubase are with 12,13 or 14. Having less clubs actually makes some people get better score but mastering the skill to use 14 clubs is rewarding. However many clubs he has it makes no difference that he is playing golf.

pottering
KVRian
771 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:58 pm

"No option to split midi drum clips by note row". You can split MIDI drum notes, using Drum Racks and its Extract Chains option. Even if you are not using Drum Racks for sounds, you can just load one temporarily somewhere (even grouped in a temporary Chain) for splitting.

Also, clicking on the actual black or white keys in the piano roll will select all the notes of the clicked note (shift for multiple, drag-selection works too) for the entire length of the Clip, it may be easier in some situations (especially with "Fold"), with Ctrl+X shortkey ("cut" instead of "copy").

"Ghost clips" is not clear to me, but multiclip editing was added on Live 10 (and there was a M4L device even for 9) and there is a M4L device for "alias clips".

http://jgarcia.hungry.jp/project/alias-clips/
https://isotonikstudios.com/product/mid ... ip-editor/

"Track manager" is not clear to me. In Live you can browse saved Sets (I mean, inside saved Sets), and browse Projects, which are the folders that can hold multiple Sets.

So, is a Project a "track"? Is a Set a "track"? Depends on the user. You can make multiple songs in a single Clip in Live (using Instrument Racks to load multiple instruments and split the keyboard,using Simpler, Drum Racks and Looper to load samples, etc). You can make a song per Scene. You can treat a Project as a album, and Sets as songs. And so on, multiple ways of organizing stuff in Live. Personally, I wouldn't like a "track manager" that ends up delimiting what a "track" is to just a few things (or worse, one thing).

But you can browse and manage Projects and Sets just fine (besides the Browser, Live also has a project manager).

"Event list" simply doesn't fit Live. It is basically for micromanaging MIDI events. It doesn't add anything to a realtime workflow, and doesn't add much to non-realtime editing either. Live clearly avoids things that lead the user to engage in repetitive OCD-like micromanagement, they won't add such features unless they also add some great functionality to Live. "Event list" doesn't.

"No mixer in arrange view" is mere personal preference. But things like Yeco and Touchable Pro (which load in Win/Mac in addition to mobile) are basically alternative custom GUIs for Live. The mixer in particular is nice in those apps, better faders than Live's triangle-in-a-ruler.

"More clics to open a plugin or assign a CC" seems like a exaggeration to me. I used Reaper and other DAWs before Live, don't recall them being particularly faster (than each other or Live), don't remember Live feeling particularly slower about it when I had started using it (and had only Intro with cheap and freeware VSTs back then). If it is slower, I doubt it is significant.

"No possibility to undock stock plugins" is a trade-off, devices being always in the same place on the DAW's GUI (and being designed for that) has its advantages too. I find myself wanting the opposite (dock plugins in the bottom panel) much more frequently.

"Dummy clips for automation". It is not clear to me what is being criticized here. Live users call "Dummy Clips" the Clips that contain only automation/modulation (with no audio or MIDI notes), but they are an extra option, automation or modulation doesn't depend on them.

"Poor midi editing". "Poor" is debatable, you don't even need to actually edit MIDI in Live to do a lot of things that are done in the "piano roll" in other DAWs. In Live you can change velocity, note length, transpose pitch, change scale, swing, quantize/humanize, all OUTSIDE the MIDI editor (and that's without M4L, with M4L things get really crazy). People tend to focus on the "piano roll", but that's not the only place for MIDI in Live.

"Automation doesn't follow notes move". If you select and move "time" or a MIDI Clip it does move the automation together with the notes. It is relative only if you edit the notes inside the Clip (though if you select time inside a Clip and "warp" MIDI, it actually affects the Clip Envelopes, including automation in Session View).

tooneba
KVRian
1192 posts since 6 Nov, 2012

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:26 pm

pottering wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:58 pm
"Ghost clips" is not clear to me, but multiclip editing was added on Live 10
It's not working properly. You can't playback from the middle of the clip.Who in the hell use this? :hihi:
"Event list" simply doesn't fit Live.
"is mere personal preference"
"Poor" is debatable
In Live you can change velocity, note length, transpose pitch, change scale, swing, quantize/humanize, all OUTSIDE the MIDI editor
Yeah, poor piano roll.

pottering
KVRian
771 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: Ableton is everywhere...

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:17 pm

You can playback from the middle of the Clip with multiclip editing in Live 10.

But the Global Quantization affects the Scrub Area and how the playhead jumps.

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