the long death throes of automap

[Dasheesh]

just got the mail from novation that automap will no longer be supported, and will not work with the new mac os (of course). automap is finally being phased out.

[chk071]

I can only congratulate them for this move.

I wonder if they will discontinue their Automap controllers now, like the Impulse keyboard.

Edit: I just saw that they did a firmware update for the Impulse, because of that. Good stuff.

[Dasheesh]

it doesn't mention the impulse, but says their "latest" controllers will still be supported and that you can still download automap in its current form, it just won't work on the latest os's.

"All of our latest controllers such as our SL MkIII and Launchkey keyboards have direct control of major DAWs via dedicated, native integration or the industry standard HUI protocol."

[tooneba]

I didn't like automap doubling the number of dll files in VST folder to make it work. And you end up to see same 2 plugin in your DAWs vst list, original ver. and automap ver.

[chk071]

Yep. That was one of the issues i had with it.

The new firmware for the Impulse is available, BTW, alongside two knowledge base articles: https://support.novationmusic.com/hc/en ... ows-system and https://support.novationmusic.com/hc/en ... 0009516479

Still have no idea how to actually use the HUI stuff, but, i don't think i will do that anyway.

[chk071]

If it was for me, what we need is a universal system, which also allows to send MIDI messages, when you switch between parameter pages on the controller, and switch the controls between different MIDI CC's (actually, i don't know whether or not that is possible always, hardware wise). Not 100 vendor specific MIDI learn and assignment systems, which all suck. Or 100 different DAW implementations.

[Bombadil]

I gave up on it a long time ago. I forget precisely why, but it kept f**king up Logic.

[WasteLand]

i am one of the few who likes automap, uses it, extensivily? had contact with beta support about 2 bugs, perhaps they will issue 4.13 still, there is a beta 4.13b2.
that you end with 2 dll's or vst3's i don't mind.
automap isn't flawless, but i guess that is also "personal" problem with 8 midi controllers connected.
but it works great for me, sl 49 mkii & sl zero mkii, the control you get to program a synth, or for automation.
buttons that can be in "step" mode (for example a knob with 3 positions or more, under one button).
encoders, the endless one, the resolution can be what you want.
it gives me a hardware feel, concentrating on the sound-design.

so i am probably one of the few who really uses it, and it works without problems, except when you too many times the view button, and when you shut down the automap server, it doesn't unload as a process. the expression pedal gives the wrong CC message, and in cubase 9.x and 10 it freezes the controls of the stock plugins, when you are using the mouse.
i also have a MCU, that gives you a kind of "komplete kontrol" over plugins and instruments, without the fuzz of a wrapper.
and i also have the panorama p1, that hasn't the deep integration anymore. i am afraid nektar, will as NI, supply a wrapper plugin; nektarine. i have it already via support, and it is now also publicly available.

long story. i am obsessed with controllers...

and automap works! yes some bugs, you can kill the process. yes, some plugins does not give the values of the parameters back to the host, when changing a preset. but that is a problem of the makers of the plugin. i report them, it seems nobody is interested.

is there no interest in complete control, because NKS, i have maschine mk3, it is nice, but it lacks... buttons (with step mode)... only 8 encoders per page... and it is too much preset orientated, i want to make my own presets!

the integration of the panorama p1 with reason 10 (i will not buy 11.. yet..) is impressive, more impressive than automap.

but still; when i use automap, i can concentrate on making sounds. to make a good automap takes some time, but once you have a map, it is so easy to program, to change parameter values. and with 2 controllers, even a the arturia cs80 v can be controlled...

i received the e-mail too, i have send an e-mail, because, i was taken very seriously when i reported the bugs of the latest beta. at that time they where working on it, or only the person that helped me, reproduced the bugs, and took me seriously.

a long reply, again, i say it. it is really important to me.

and yes automap does not need updates for new daw versions, because automap works for example also within the maschine software, it detects that it a automap plugin is loaded. more control...
so it will work, i am on windows 7 and windows 10, for as long the depencies are there, could be years, i hope.

list of controllers, my obsession!:
- spark CDM
- novation zero sl mkii
- novation sl 49 mkii
- novation remote sl Compact 49
- nektar panorama p1
- push 2
- MCU (not the pro, and old one.. deep integration with cubase 10 pro)
- maschine mk3
- maschine jam
- bcr 2000
- fcb-1010

[WasteLand]

If it was for me, what we need is a universal system, which also allows to send MIDI messages, when you switch between parameter pages on the controller, and switch the controls between different MIDI CC's (actually, i don't know whether or not that is possible always, hardware wise). Not 100 vendor specific MIDI learn and assignment systems, which all suck. Or 100 different DAW implementations.

every plugin exposes its parameters (names) and values to its host.
every change of a parameter value is reported to the host.

that is already the universal system, or the beginning of it.

(IK multimedia plugins have the flaw that one you change a preset, it does not report the changed values back to the host. one line of code i think is necessary. 4.6 versions do it still, if you go up, more and more plugins do not report the changed values. 5.21 didn't fixed. this is only when changing a preset. i reported this, but no answer...)

automap does not work with midi cc, me thinks, when in automap mode. how it really works i do not know.

midi cc, learn functions (and not all effects and instruments have it...), isn't the way.

the vst SDK is the basis.

a DAW can report the parameters (names) and values to controller, like ableton does. but it is a limited implementation for third party plugins. the push 2 could be capable of automap like behavior. implementing it, will not cost headaches. it also shows them on my sl 49 mkii, but i do not use them, the push 2 i use.. for the ableton devices the implementation is pretty good, sometimes a little bit strange.

bitwig is capable of making mappings?

reason certainly; the panorama p1, at the reasontalk forum, has a big database (a file...) for many RE's, and vst plugins. programmed mostly by one man. it isn't really documented.

for me the sl mkiii (3) is step back. perhaps their will be a deep integration coming for cubase, but still, less buttons... and the fader "oled feedback" is one small screen.

yes the sl 49 mkii has only one lcd screen, that is mistake, the older ones have 2.

i have als the compact 49, or how it is called, works still great.

this is the problem of hardware that depends on software. but still, luckily i am on windows. and it will work for years i think. or i hope..

[tooneba]

Is this decision forced by new Apple's OS adopting tight restriction?

[WasteLand]

Is this decision forced by new Apple's OS adopting tight restriction?

yes, many other manufacturers, warn to not to update to newest OS version of apple, because of it breaks their software/plugins.

the decision is forced, in a way.

[chk071]

I wonder if it is possible to make hardware that can switch between pages of MIDI CC's for the controls. That's the only thing i miss from systems like Automap.

[tooneba]

Is this decision forced by new Apple's OS adopting tight restriction?

yes, many other manufacturers, warn to not to update to newest OS version of apple, because of it breaks their software/plugins.

the decision is forced, in a way.

That's pathetic incident for Windows version users indirectly involved in planned obsolescence done by Apple.

[WasteLand]

Is this decision forced by new Apple's OS adopting tight restriction?

yes, many other manufacturers, warn to not to update to newest OS version of apple, because of it breaks their software/plugins.

the decision is forced, in a way.

That's pathetic incident for Windows version users indirectly involved in planned obsolescence done by Apple.

i can't be quite sure, of course, i am not novation employee, or better: focusrite..., but a new automap version was already in beta, supporting the newest ableton, cubase, etc. and some other changes.
i was glad that they worked on it still.

it was a matter of time, but me thinks, the problems with new apple OS have influenced the timing of the decision to stop developing automap.

yes also window users are effected. but in a lesser degree, a program can run a long time, even on newer versions of windows 10, coming in the next years. legacy is a pain in the ass (it makes windows more complex) but for this situations it is great.

and sometimes a old program will not install anymore, because of the... installer.. there are workarounds for rebirth for instance, and rebirth is old... but still can be run on win 10, never tried that, but tried it on windows 7 (ok, also 10 years old..).

i have contacted support, because the person where i talked with, promissed me to notify when a new release would come. of course decisions of this kind are made by others, if developing stops.
so.. i curious what kind of answer i get...

[v1o]

I still have the SL MKii. Never used Automap, never seemed like it was worth the effort to learn it.