Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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BONES
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9046 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Tue May 21, 2019 9:12 pm

codec_spurt wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:56 pm
XT2 is about the fastest thing there is. It takes about 2 seconds to fully load. No other program in Windows can do this. None.
Orion doesn't take long, it opens pretty much instantly. I'd be surprised if XT2 was faster.
It doesn't scan VST directories, so is ideal for testing new VSTs. I can dl a new VST from the net and have it loaded live within 20 seconds in XT. No other program can do this. AS fast.
The problem is that any time you save there you lose by having to wire it into the system. OTOH, in Orion I can load a VSTi, press CTRL+R to create a random pattern, then press the spacebar and I get a musical pattern (the random pattern generator has rules) that loops.
Because I have shortcuts mapped to the keyboard via the .ini file (just in case it gets deleted) I can then render out a 4 bar loop in about 30 seconds after that. No other program comes close. Tap tap tap. Rendered.
So it writes the music for you? Again, in Orion I don't need to stuff about editing .ini files or assigning shortcuts and I'd still get my 4 bar loop rendered faster than you. I had XT for a long time, even made a full skin for it, but I never noticed it being faster than Orion. XT2 was incredibly unstable so I never bothered updating. Cubase does take forever to start but if I'm going to be working on it for 4-5 hours, which is about average for an evening session, who cares?
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Straylight, Quanta, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

generaldiomedes
KVRian
674 posts since 15 Apr, 2017 from Canada

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Tue May 21, 2019 9:39 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:36 pm
How are these two things different? If S1 handles instruments independently of the tracks, wouldn't that also make it really easy to preview different instruments/patches?
For me, it became difficult to keep track of it all after a certain number of tracks/instruments.

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BONES
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9046 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 pm

That makes sense. It's another thing I like about Orion - you can arrange all your floating windows any way you want which makes it easy to keep track of everything and see far more of what's going on than with anything else I've ever come across.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Straylight, Quanta, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2283 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Tue May 21, 2019 10:18 pm

BONES wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 pm
That makes sense. It's another thing I like about Orion - you can arrange all your floating windows any way you want which makes it easy to keep track of everything and see far more of what's going on than with anything else I've ever come across.
That was what attracted me to Orion in the first place; your environment is like a hardware studio where everything you are working with is in view and you can quickly jump between instruments. However, Reaper can do something similar as you can have as many plugin windows open as you like. Combine that with screensets and it becomes even more powerful than Orion in that regard. I recently added a 47 inch 4K screen to my setup for that (and to have a very big VCV rack space :D )
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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BONES
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9046 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Tue May 21, 2019 10:52 pm

Plugin windows don't concern me too much, especially given how ridiculously large they are these days. It's the Mixer and Master sections that make Orion work so well, along with having the instrument toolbars visible so you can quickly get at your piano rolls. The way I have it set up means that literally everything is just one click away.

My screen is effectively 1440x960 (2160x1440 at 150%) so screen space is tight for me. I can get 1920x1080 if I run it through my TV but it doesn't really improve things.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Straylight, Quanta, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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LoveEnigma18
KVRian
1281 posts since 12 Jan, 2018

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 12:51 am

For anyone especially new to music production, nothing can beat FL Studio and Maschine in terms of getting ideas out fast and even make full tracks with minimal fuss and understanding.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2273 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 1:18 am

BONES wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:26 pm
tatanka wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:45 am


What I know I will miss most isn't Orion itself, it's Wasp. I haven't found another soft synth that can come close to what we do with it. The best I can manage is actually a hardware synth - Waldorf's Rocket.
LOL
Wasp was one of the verry first vsti's ( also included in fl studio ) , nowadays there is nothing special about it .
Maybe you could elaborate what you think makes it's so unique
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ENV1
KVRAF
2579 posts since 31 Aug, 2011

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 2:26 am

BONES wrote: Orion doesn't take long, it opens pretty much instantly.
Not if it hasnt scanned plugins yet. (I.e. the first scan after OS boot/reboot always takes long - how long exactly depending on the amount of plugins installed.)

Once it did that first/initial scan, the operation sorta remains 'cached'. Thus from that point forward Orion will start more or less instantly since it doesnt need to scan everything from scratch. However, should that caching get eliminated by other stuff happening on the machine (like for instance loading a game or some other resource-intensive application) it will take long again since a new from-scratch scan needs to be performed.

(The same by the way applies to all hosts that scan plugins every startup. Hence if you run say REAPER, and it scans the plugins, and you then run Orion, Orion will start fast too since the scanning operation has already been performed. (I.e. it doesnt matter what app is doing that first scan. Once the operation is performed/cached, all hosts that scan on startup will benefit from it.))

BONES wrote: I'd be surprised if XT2 was faster.
As has been mentioned, eXT doesnt scan plugins ever, it merely lists them as files.

It therefore always starts instantly, only limited by the speed of your machine.

(On a halfways decent PC it wont even take a full second.)


On Topic: I would say Orion too. Cant beat this for speed and immediacy. The concept of each instrument having its very own multi-pattern sequencer plus a 'playlist' where you then arrange the patterns into songs is just what the doctor ordered if youre into sequence-based music. The only one that comes close conceptwise (at least as far as im aware) is Phrazor because it functions in a very similar way.

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bharris22
KVRAF
1622 posts since 3 Mar, 2010

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 3:18 am

This thread is a little depressing - neither Orion nor Phrazor are available anywhere any more - is that correct?

chk071
KVRAF
22446 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 3:19 am

Yes.

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2283 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 3:56 am

BONES wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:52 pm
It's the Mixer and Master sections that make Orion work so well, along with having the instrument toolbars visible so you can quickly get at your piano rolls. The way I have it set up means that literally everything is just one click away.
Yep, I used to work mixer-centric in Orion as well, and have replicated that in Reaper with one monitor completely dedicated to the mixer. Combined with the right theme (LCR in my case) I can get to everything in my project indeed with just one mouse click.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2283 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 3:56 am

bharris22 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:18 am
This thread is a little depressing - neither Orion nor Phrazor are available anywhere any more - is that correct?
Hence the quest for a substitute option :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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BONES
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9046 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 4:44 pm

ENV1 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:26 am
BONES wrote: Orion doesn't take long, it opens pretty much instantly.
Not if it hasnt scanned plugins yet...
... As has been mentioned, eXT doesnt scan plugins ever, it merely lists them as files.
Orion doesn't scan plugins unless you tell it to, although it does seem to pick up new ones that have been added, so maybe it does it after it starts or it compares the folder(s) to a list it has previously compiled or something. Whatever it is, it starts about a hundred times faster than Cubase.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Straylight, Quanta, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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BONES
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9046 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 5:06 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:18 am
Wasp was one of the verry first vsti's ( also included in fl studio ) , nowadays there is nothing special about it ...

Maybe you could elaborate what you think makes it's so unique
Luckily it was updated several times and the last version in Orion was Wasp 5. No other soft synth, not even DUNE, can match the expressiveness or power of Wasp's filters. They are in a class of their own when it comes to basslines. Have a listen to the baseline in this song. There is no automation and the only processing is a bit of reverb and delay from the sends and possibly a bit of EQ to rein in the bottom end (I can't remember). Even during the break, where the bass gets more full-on, it's still the same patch, just with more velocity. It's stuff I just can't do with anything else I've tried, except the Rocket, with it's digital oscillator and analogue filter combo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G950mel2dxw
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Straylight, Quanta, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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MuzikFreq
KVRist
78 posts since 29 Apr, 2019

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Wed May 22, 2019 8:49 pm

Torn on this
My first thing was Maschine MK II which now mainly acts as a giant soundcard. 😔
Automation was blah and the general workflow for Trance was .... Well it's a nice drum maschine....

FL Studio was next....
Dear lord the mixer drove me bannanas and just everything was everywhere. Routing was kinda a joke and just too many windows and tabbing around.
Arrangement was even more a joke to me.

Decided to take the dive into Ableton Standard.
Quick and fast drag and drop effects and instruments, samples... Everything drag and drop.
Arrangement view is nice to take your sketch pad and transfer and the sketch pad being clip launch mode.
Piano roll sucks though

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