Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

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hlecram
KVRist
91 posts since 11 Jul, 2016

Post Sat May 18, 2019 5:59 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:54 pm
Long time Reaper user and not moving away from that :D

However, I'm looking for a DAW that let me work out ideas quickly and then move that over to reaper for final recording and production. Preferably something pattern-based, limited track count and such is not a problem...
Hey,

I suggest to pick a software which can also act as vst. Since you already got Maschine I would stick with it! I own a license since nearly its beginning (sold the hw controller), and could not live without it. Maschine is Part of my default project in Studio one and the central hub for my drum parts and some melodic sketches - in other words: it is the instrument which helps me to get the rock rolling! When it comes to arranging and finishing the track, the drag and drop function comes in really handy. Of course there are some downsides, but for me the advantages and increase of workflow overweigh too much. I admit, that The GUI can get fiddly and inconvenient at times, since it is designed to work with their hw Controllers primarily, so there is some nasty clicking here and there involved which could otherwise be handled better. But with the time you work your way around those minor annoyances and earn a viable production tool/instrument/vst which can be useful in many aspects (and more than a „sketchpad“). :party:

zzz00m
KVRAF
1982 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sat May 18, 2019 7:08 am

I would think that Live would make a good companion to any traditional DAW, especially for experimental-ish sketches.

Anything that inspires you and doesn't get in the way of creativity should work. Plus it doesn't hurt that there are truckloads of Live tutorials available for free and paid.
Windows 10; with instruments from AAS, Ableton, AIR, Ample Sound, Cakewalk, IK Multimedia, iZotope, KV331, NI, PreSonus, Seaweed Audio, SONiVOX, TAL, Tracktion, u-he, UVI, Vember Audio, Waves, Way Out Ware, XLN, others...

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2261 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 3:23 am

inkwarp wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 10:21 am
FL Studio
really fast way to put ideas down...
FL never clicked with me. Back in the days (talking 2001-ish) it was the choice between Orion and FL, and as I used to run the Orion user community then (orion-central) it's clear where I went :D
machinesworking wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:44 pm
What you describe is Live's domain.
I have a lite license, installed it last week and going to try it out.
BONES wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:00 am
Live and Bitwig are nothing in comparison to Orion for that kind of thing. Neither are anywhere near as intuitive and simple, or as quick to get ideas out of your head.
Agreed, and I HAVE a Orion license while the full Live license is pretty expensive and Bitwig is also not really cheap (looking at it as a second auxiliary DAW for me)
neverenoughfunk wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:04 am
Propellerheads Reason is the ideal sketch pad...
Still have to locate that serial :D
Aloysius wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:18 am
If you are new to Reaper....
You seemed to have missed the very first sentence in my opening post :hihi:

However, setting something up to sketch things out inside reaper is a serious possibility. Because I do have a LOT of experience there (including reaper-scripting) I'm still looking in that direction as well.

I've always build my projects with track templates (I have lots of them) but I'm in the process of building a (rather big) project template for working on new ideas quickly. I'll see how that works out.
hlecram wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 5:59 am
Since you already got Maschine I would stick with it!
I'm trying as it integrates (obviously) with my Komplete Kontrol keyboard and indeed loads as a VST (which making integration with Reaper possible). Still so far it doesn't gel with me.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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voidhead23
KVRist
175 posts since 5 Jan, 2018 from Beijing, PRC

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 5:13 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:23 am

You seemed to have missed the very first sentence in my opening post :hihi:

However, setting something up to sketch things out inside reaper is a serious possibility. Because I do have a LOT of experience there (including reaper-scripting) I'm still looking in that direction as well.

I've always build my projects with track templates (I have lots of them) but I'm in the process of building a (rather big) project template for working on new ideas quickly. I'll see how that works out.
i would argue against a 'large' template for getting ideas down quickly. i try to stick to a Portastudio mindframe when sketching...maybe 8 tracks. If it grows, it grows, but i try to stick to just a few sound sources when i'm trying to write a song or else i'm A/Bing the fundamental of two bass parts for a whole day...

i'm not sure if you can record audio into it, but maybe Playtime would work to stay inside Reaper but use a clip launcher for sketching? Overall, though, i find clip launchers only useful if i stay in the same time sig while writing. Once i change (which happens often) the session view becomes a mess and it also screws up the arrangement view. So it really only gets me started before i have to go back to the same linear workflow.

i honestly think your answer is more about streamlining your workflow in Reaper, since you apparently like it and also (most importantly) know it well. So you can kind of disregard everything i type below.

i use Live, and it's been a great tool for getting work actually done. i don't make loop-based or experimental or EDM or anything...there are just a lot of choices made by the designers to be purposefully limiting in certain areas, and i find this helps to get the program out of my way so i can start actually making music. i can't think of any DAW that does this better (and i've tried Logic, Ardour, Reaper, T7/Waveform, Studio One, Bitwig...). However, it also makes a lot of people frustrated who need that extra functionality, particularly for mixing. It's also...very expensive.

i've been trying to get into Reaper for two years now because, on paper, it just looks incredible and solves a lot of problems i have with other DAWs, but i just don't get it. When i get in there, nothing happens. There's just too much going on in there for me, too many tools, too many options, and it doesn't like a lot of plugins i need to get specific things done (and that work flawlessly in other DAWs). It seems odd that i don't gel with other DAWs when i mostly bypass Live's most defining creative feature (the session view), but my point is, DAWs have much deeper elements involved in their workflow and their helpfulness to useers than what might be immediately noticeable.

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2261 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 12:23 pm

voidhead23 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:13 am
would argue against a 'large' template for getting ideas down quickly.
I tend to get sidetracked when I need to choose certain components (i.e. track templates), definitely a case of choice paralysis :D But lately I saw several presentations/tutorials from famous composers (e.g. Tom Holkenborg) whoa al use large templates so they can simply start recording ideas with any prior setup at all. So I'm seriously looking into that. Even with a Live Lite setup, which is limited to 8 tracks, I would think of setting up a template with previously configured tracks.

Playing around with Caustic 3, which is limited to 14 tracks and looking how a project template can enhance my workflow there as well.

For now, these are all experiments, I have yet to commit to a certain setup (or two... or three :D )
voidhead23 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:13 am
i've been trying to get into Reaper for two years now because, on paper, it just looks incredible and solves a lot of problems i have with other DAWs, but i just don't get it. When i get in there, nothing happens. There's just too much going on in there for me, too many tools, too many options
Yep, setting up reaper to work for you might take quite some time, but the fact that you can make it work the exact way YOU want it to work was the absolute killer feature for me.

So going from there it should be possible to setup stuff to support quick sketching as well, but it might (again) take quite some effort to get it working like I want.... but I'm sure it's possible.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8861 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 4:38 pm

I don't like the idea of templates at all. I often think about a default with drums and a few synths and effects that I use all the time pre-loaded but I never do it because I worry that it pre-determines too much of the process. Too many good things happen by accident.
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Karma_tba
KVRian
1075 posts since 12 Aug, 2004

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 4:53 pm

not sure where this thread is at.....templates (naw) quick sketch yeah...…..ORION …….YES!! Didn't feel like reading it all but Orion is where I went after Acid and I still use it today. Studio One is the finisher … but Orion will always be close to my heart.

V0RT3X
KVRAF
7728 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Reason 10 is pretty good with it's built-in collection of devices. It gives you a bunch of great tools to bang out a demo song. This self-contained approach with it's included devices is kind of cool because it really gives you everything you need to make a decent sounding demo track.

After you're finished, there are a lot of things you could do by exporting the midi data into another DAW with "better sounding" plugins.

I think the cool thing about a sketch pad is that you want to be able to write music wherever you are, so just having a semi-decent laptop and Reason 10 seems about right.

Some might argue that it's all you need, but I still think there is stuff lacking with Reasons stock devices. Also VST support in Reason is still pretty meh.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8861 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 6:18 pm

I doubt Reason's included instruments and effects are better than Orion's. Orion has everything and most of it is of the same kind of standard as their VSTi. It was always severely under-rated.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), Zoom U24, Cubase, DUNE, Hive, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Substance, Arcsyn, Synthmaster One, Aparillo, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2

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Benedict
KVRAF
3085 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 6:24 pm

I am a Reason man and do really like it as there is huge scope, and if you didn't have Orion already, it would be a great choice. For some reason Synapse stuff and I never really gell but seeing you have and like Orion then use that.

:-)

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2261 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 11:23 pm

BONES wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:38 pm
I don't like the idea of templates at all. I often think about a default with drums and a few synths and effects that I use all the time pre-loaded but I never do it because I worry that it pre-determines too much of the process. Too many good things happen by accident.
As soon as I need to choose something to work on an idea, I start going through my options which gives me even more ideas... and that's where my process starts to break down as I don't get to actually work on the initial idea and the same thing happens with the subsequent ideas. At the end of a studio session I have still a lot of ideas but nothing recorded or saved in one or another way. The next day everything is gone and the circus starts all over again :roll:

I have severely limited my instruments as far as I could, where I have specific synths for specific tasks, a shortlist of go-to's as it where. This has already done wonders for my process. Now I need a setup where I can simply go to the synth I need/want for my current idea and start recording right away without any distractions... so for me templates is where that can happen.

Of course I do completely different music style from yours, so I understand your fondness of happy accidents :D
BONES wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:18 pm
I doubt Reason's included instruments and effects are better than Orion's. Orion has everything and most of it is of the same kind of standard as their VSTi. It was always severely under-rated.
Absolutely :D
Benedict wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:24 pm
I am a Reason man and do really like it as there is huge scope, and if you didn't have Orion already, it would be a great choice.
I do have a limited Reason license also (somewhere :dog: ) so I'm still hoping to try that out as well. The one-screen-everything-in-view approach of T7 is also still appealing. And I'm still playing around with Caustic 3 as that runs now on my studio machine (Windows 10), my android tablet AND even on my Linux laptop under Wine with no problems at all. It's a fairly closed system but it can export midi and stems so it should be able to use it for ideas sketching and then bring a project over to reaper for the more involved stuff.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3339 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 pm

For sketching ideas easily - Ableton in Session View. Does wonders for all loop-based styles.

However, once you need to build a complex arrangement, it might not be the best tool for the job.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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crimsonwarlock
KVRAF
2261 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 11:38 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 pm
For sketching ideas easily - Ableton in Session View. Does wonders for all loop-based styles.
For me sketching does not equal 'loop-based'.... there are still people who compose by playing chord progressions on keys (preferably weighted hammer-action keys) :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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Benedict
KVRAF
3085 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 pm

crimsonwarlock wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:38 pm
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:28 pm
For sketching ideas easily - Ableton in Session View. Does wonders for all loop-based styles.
For me sketching does not equal 'loop-based'.... there are still people who compose by playing chord progressions on keys (preferably weighted hammer-action keys) :D
The horror! You must be ashamed of yourself*

I am a very Linear man myself. I loathe loops and blocks.

:-)

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
8861 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Which DAW for sketching out ideas fast (and easy)

Post Mon May 20, 2019 12:18 am

Repetition is sublime.
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