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When I was using a controller for MIDI CC, I would set up the pads/knobs for the CC, create templates for different use cases according to my Cubase preset lanes in Key Editor and the two things simply agree. I only ever fiddled with Quick Controls trying to force a controller which doesn't actually work for Cubase on Mac (except as MCU, to control the mixer faders and purportedly sends and the EQ given via the mixer) to do something. Jeeze, I hope never to again. I didn't understand most of the functions displayed. So while on paper it's kind of beat, I don't use it. For me writing it in the lanes is actually more conducive in every way. And I do a LOT of control.
Last edited by jancivil on Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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THE INTRANCER wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:05 pm
Funny watching that guys summary of Cubase 10, it was a mirror image of feelings in what I felt whilst trying it out for awhile. Like being in a boxing match with one hand tied around your back all the time. Then you look down and find that one of your legs has been replaced in an operation, to which you find that's it wooden and has nuts and bolts holding it together. Those nuts are well polished and there's a nice coat of varnish, but it does feel heavy regardless. The bell rings and you go sit in the corner, you take a look at your face in a mirror, and things aren't quite as pretty as you thought they were.... you're a mutant... :D
Are you sure you have used Cubase 10 ?

I have Cubase 10 and Studio One Pro 4.5, and am spending all my time in Cubase of late. They are both good DAWs, but why you think Cubase is hard to use is baffling. Maybe you last used Cubase 20 years ago ?

I think you confuse your own personal preferences with reality.

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v1o wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:08 pm
reggie1979 wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:10 pm He gets paid to tell you how bad Cubase is :hihi:
Cubase isn’t perfect, in many ways it’s archaic and non intuitive to new users not tuned to its idiosyncrasies, I agree with everything this guy says says.

https://youtu.be/uWKjNju-6pg
You guys know I was just joking, right?

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If I can figure out Cubase without its manual, as I largely have, any idiot can.
It's as if the collective IQ of the world is dropping 1 pt per day at least, tho

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"non intuitive"/sic :hihi:

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Some things are definitely harder to find in Cubase, and some other things definitely need more clicks than in Studio One, for example. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's unintuitive, it really isn't, but, that level of complexity and feature set always comes at a price. Menus are cluttered, and have many, many entries. And, they also could do with some icons for certain features, which always improves readability.

Anyway, really complaining on a high level here. :) It's not half as bad as Reaper in that regard.

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dellboy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:17 pm Are you sure you have used Cubase 10 ?

I have Cubase 10 and Studio One Pro 4.5, and am spending all my time in Cubase of late. They are both good DAWs, but why you think Cubase is hard to use is baffling. Maybe you last used Cubase 20 years ago ?

I think you confuse your own personal preferences with reality.
Trailed 9.5 some months back so was able to dig under the hood myself for a few weeks, and watched several feature video's of what's been added since, so have a pretty good grasp of Cubase 10 to gauge what's it's like, plus adding on the S1 experience I have.

Personal preferences are a reality though, that's what separates computers/robots from humans. :wink:

I've made some lengthy posts previously about my experience with Cubase in other threads and I hate repeating myself... but anyway...this video does provide some comparisons with Cubase 10 and SO 4.5... so is probably more entertaining....Some things, he points out that can't be done in S1, can be... as pointed out on the youtube replies he's got.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPSY_x3B38
Last edited by THE INTRANCER on Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chk071 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:28 pm Yeah, if a soft synth supports MIDI learn ,then that's cool of course. Unfortunately, one of my favorites (Largo) doesn't, so, i'd have to use a special MIDI mapping on my keyboard for that purpose. I can understand why it doesn't support MIDI learn though (compatibility with the Blofeld's controls).
For me it's less about soft synths (where I MIDI Learn to my System-8) and more about effects. In S1 I had my most commonly used effects mapped to my Remote Zero SL so I could get hands on with EQ, compressors, reverbs, delay, etc. Wasn't limited to 8 parameters per channel. When you're able to turn multiple parameters at once on physical knobs, it totally changes what you might do with a moUse and speeds up workflow. Becomes more about your ears and not your eyes. At least for me anyway.

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THE INTRANCER wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:06 pm


Personal preferences are a reality though, that's what separates computers/robots from humans. :wink:

Have I got you mixed up with someone else, but do you do all your work with midi and upward of 200 tracks ? because how we work can have a big effect on how we experience something.

When I use a DAW its always hand on playing in everything live. The only time I use midi is with VSTs,and if I make a mistake I do it again until I get it right. My point is that if you do a lot of midi input stuff with a mouse it could well have a big impression on how good a DAW seems depending on a DAWs midi abilities.

Having said that, I thought that midi is Cubase's forte and not so much Studio One ?

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dellboy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 pm
THE INTRANCER wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:06 pm


Personal preferences are a reality though, that's what separates computers/robots from humans. :wink:

Have I got you mixed up with someone else, but do you do all your work with midi and upward of 200 tracks ? because how we work can have a big effect on how we experience something.

When I use a DAW its always hand on playing in everything live. The only time I use midi is with VSTs,and if I make a mistake I do it again until I get it right. My point is that if you do a lot of midi input stuff with a mouse it could well have a big impression on how good a DAW seems depending on a DAWs midi abilities.

Having said that, I thought that midi is Cubase's forte and not so much Studio One ?
Up to around 180 tracks of audio and midi in one single arrangement view in S1, is one occasion I've highlighted here previously with a screenshot, but since then I employed the multitrack composite song layering technique so I could have 3 song parts of 40 to 60 tracks combined and mixed together, which is more CPU efficient and creatively effective for what I'm trying to achieve. It's not always required to have as many tracks as that though, it depends on the project. I rely on my live playing ability, but I'll use the midi editor to delete notes and match up chords, fix timing, do quantisation tricks ect.. as well as program in step time if I can as I use to do with sound trackers. If an option is there to make something quicker to do then I'm cool with that but I'm happy to do everything manually in second gear if I need to...

I used Reason for a long time so I was pretty much forced to play everything live vie the keyboard like an old tape recorder system...not a problem as I enjoy playing anyway. Still no step-time recording in Reason... but anyway Cubase might be better for midi editing, but that doesn't mean it's better for me, it might support NKS controllers, and Studio One doesn't yet but..I use real synthesizers ect...
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dellboy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 pm Having said that, I thought that midi is Cubase's forte and not so much Studio One ?
I still wonder what that means. Everyone repeats it, nobody explains it. :)

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chk071 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:52 pm
dellboy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 pm Having said that, I thought that midi is Cubase's forte and not so much Studio One ?
I still wonder what that means. Everyone repeats it, nobody explains it. :)
To quote myself from the Studio One 4.5 thread...
1. No polyphonic aftertouch - just does not exist/work (try using an e-drum kit with S1 and do a cymbal choke)
2. No Sysex support - just does not exist/work
3. No External Instrument for interfacing hardware synths with Studio One (think Pipeline but for instruments)
4. No MPE support (sure you can workaround that with 16 separate MIDI tracks, but good luck editing that performance)
5. No 14-bit MIDI controller support - just does not exist/work
6. No smart tool for MIDI editing like S1 has for audio (Cubase lacks this too)
7. No MIDI input transformer (ever need to convert one CC to another or filter MIDI, etcl.?) - just does not exist
8. No staff editor - would sure be handy for those of us who prefer to read/write notation in some instances without having to rewire in a separate instance of Notion
9. No MTC (MIDI Time Code) support - not one I really need, but if you do, you ain't using Studio One for it

That's just off the top of my head. That doesn't include the fact that you can't transpose in the Pattern Editor (which Cubase doesn't have at all), or set a default velocity in the Drum Editor, or preview the new MIDI funcitons that were just added, etc., all of which would help out with MIDI-based workflows.
Unless otherwise noted, Cubase has the above features, while Studio One does not.

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Aye, i remember i even saw that, and forgot about it. :)

Most of these things seem to be related to external instruments though? At least, their absence never bothered me in Studio One.

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chk071 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:52 pm
dellboy wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 pm Having said that, I thought that midi is Cubase's forte and not so much Studio One ?
I still wonder what that means. Everyone repeats it, nobody explains it. :)
In 1990 or so I had an Atari with a 20 megabyte hardisk and a hi rez Atari monitor - and Cubase.

It was all midi back then, audio was something future. So Cubase - Notator Logic - and Cakewalk, were built around midi. I guess that somewhere, deep inside Cubase, its midi origins are still there.

I well remember the excitement at the London music show of watching Steinberg debut the Atari Falcon running audio tracks - and it crashed.

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chk071 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 pm Aye, i remember i even saw that, and forgot about it. :)

Most of these things seem to be related to external instruments though? At least, their absence never bothered me in Studio One.
Sure, if you're 100% ITB and entering things into a piano roll, then a lot of that won't apply. But that's kind of the whole point too. MIDI is this big wonderful protocol for interfacing all kinds of different gear. Studio One just isn't good at that whole concept of interfacing with different gear. It was a seemingly deliberate design choice to say, "hey, we need to have virtual instruments in our DAW but don't want to write an entire MIDI implementation from ground up cause that will take too long, what else can we do?" So they created some kind of method for taking basic MIDI messages, turning that into some kind of internal protocol, and declaring their job complete. All these years later, all the things they didn't account for are exactly what makes S1 weak on the MIDI side.

I'm not trying to bash either: I was really hoping versions 4 to 4.5 would be all about improving MIDI. Now I hope version 5 will be. Presonus could continue to ignore it, but doing so would be at their peril as Cubase looks to improve its ease of use and workflow - taking direct aim at S1.

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