What does the future hold for Magix?

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SoundPorn wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:11 pm No they're issue is clearly that they are trying to sell like 5 different DAWS in an over crowded market they over saturate themselves.
Care to add clarity to that line of reasoning? Magix is not a small corporation without the resources to maintain software that's been their product staple for years. They're not constantly building new programs from the ground up. Surely you can come up with a better perspective? They just see consumers as sheep that will buy anything. You see it in the marketing. It's simple...cut cost on paying coders, add meaningless content for the zombies to buy, because it's marketed to Millennials that care more about phones and social media. The attitudes of those in control dictates direction! The programmers and little people aren't in control of what the powers that be says is the law to be followed.

You see this trend in business all the time. Someone with a degree and other credentials comes in with a
Donald Trump, bone headed attitude about how things are going to be run, with no regard for the fallout that attitude brings. It really is just that simple!

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I like their stuff mostly, they are just unwilling to offer the stuff for less than they planned ahead of time. And I won’t pay that much to upgrade. Unless they come up with some decent sales, I will wait forever if that’s how they’re gonna play it.

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I really wished i would get a cent for every "They don't listen to their customers" lament on internet forums. Interestingly, it's often about bigger companies, with a lot of customers, they allegedly don't listen to. Oh well. Probably the one or the other still has this fantastic image in his mind, that companies with ten thousands of customers have some CEO's running around which check internet forums, and read the "common user's" every wish from his lips. Whoever the "common user" is supposed to be. Oh, yeah, the guy posting in a forum, right. So, let's take him, and then let's take another person, and another person, and so on, until we have a couple of hundred different opinions, and end up with a complete mish mash of different opinions, and "great ideas" which of course should be implemented, so that the company "listens to their customers". And have a Frankenstein of a software, which does everything, but nothing really good, and is a complete mess. Yes, it's great to "listen to the customers".

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pc2000 wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:29 pm
SoundPorn wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:11 pm No they're issue is clearly that they are trying to sell like 5 different DAWS in an over crowded market they over saturate themselves.
Care to add clarity to that line of reasoning? Magix is not a small corporation without the resources to maintain software that's been their product staple for years. They're not constantly building new programs from the ground up. Surely you can come up with a better perspective? They just see consumers as sheep that will buy anything. You see it in the marketing. It's simple...cut cost on paying coders, add meaningless content for the zombies to buy, because it's marketed to Millennials that care more about phones and social media. The attitudes of those in control dictates direction! The programmers and little people aren't in control of what the powers that be says is the law to be followed.

You see this trend in business all the time. Someone with a degree and other credentials comes in with a
Donald Trump, bone headed attitude about how things are going to be run, with no regard for the fallout that attitude brings. It really is just that simple!
I dunno - what SoundPorn says makes sense to me, pc2000. I may be wrong - but what Magix looks like right now is a combination of a lot of different ip with no underlying unifying focus - no real strategy; other then to sell as many different packages as possible.

There indeed may be coders employed at Magix that are solely dedicated to say: Sequoia and Samplitude - but the vision to move the product forward just doesn't seem to be there. You gave an excellent example of what happened to Cakewalk, pc2000 - i had read something similiar a while back - usually: its more then just a topheavy management team. Looking deeper: the guy (most of the time its a guy) made some bad calls (sometimes its just one) and consequently hurt the financials of the company; created the need for outside investment (and management, sometimes far more importantly. Heartbreaking; because that oftentimes takes control of the 'child out of the hands of the parent' if you understand my analogy). When that happens: the future of the company is (at minimun) put at risk. So here we are: SEK'D & Sonic Foundry's ip are owned by Magix.

Sonic Foundry's code is being updated; but clearly its being done w/o vision. The Samplitude packages are a mess - but a steal when they do their extreme deals - especially now when bundled with Sonic Foundry stuff (Sound Forge Pro is *still* good; its great to see it finally 64 bit even though it's interface could use a ui makeover. And yes: i use it for some things other then just solely wavelab).

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The upgrade to Pro X4 (especially on paper) wasn't overly exciting (no ground-breaking new features).
That said, Pro X4 is an extremely powerful DAW... and the new MIDI and Browser features are nice enhancements.
I'm not experiencing any type of stability problems with Pro X4.

The UI in Pro X4 looks a bit dated... but really doesn't bother me.

As for "direction" or "vision", I think that gets lost/diminished once the original creator is gone.
You see this all the time in business (from Tech companies down to Fast-Food).
Nobody is going to be more passionate about a product than its original creator.
That fire/drive isn't going to be matched by those with no real attachment.
Jim Roseberry
Purrrfect Audio
www.studiocat.com
jim@studiocat.com

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goldenanalog wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:11 pm
pc2000 wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:29 pm
SoundPorn wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:11 pm No they're issue is clearly that they are trying to sell like 5 different DAWS in an over crowded market they over saturate themselves.
Care to add clarity to that line of reasoning? Magix is not a small corporation without the resources to maintain software that's been their product staple for years. They're not constantly building new programs from the ground up. Surely you can come up with a better perspective? They just see consumers as sheep that will buy anything. You see it in the marketing. It's simple...cut cost on paying coders, add meaningless content for the zombies to buy, because it's marketed to Millennials that care more about phones and social media. The attitudes of those in control dictates direction! The programmers and little people aren't in control of what the powers that be says is the law to be followed.

You see this trend in business all the time. Someone with a degree and other credentials comes in with a
Donald Trump, bone headed attitude about how things are going to be run, with no regard for the fallout that attitude brings. It really is just that simple!
I dunno - what SoundPorn says makes sense to me, pc2000. I may be wrong - but what Magix looks like right now is a combination of a lot of different ip with no underlying unifying focus - no real strategy; other then to sell as many different packages as possible.

There indeed may be coders employed at Magix that are solely dedicated to say: Sequoia and Samplitude - but the vision to move the product forward just doesn't seem to be there. You gave an excellent example of what happened to Cakewalk, pc2000 - i had read something similiar a while back - usually: its more then just a topheavy management team. Looking deeper: the guy (most of the time its a guy) made some bad calls (sometimes its just one) and consequently hurt the financials of the company; created the need for outside investment (and management, sometimes far more importantly. Heartbreaking; because that oftentimes takes control of the 'child out of the hands of the parent' if you understand my analogy). When that happens: the future of the company is (at minimun) put at risk. So here we are: SEK'D & Sonic Foundry's ip are owned by Magix.

Sonic Foundry's code is being updated; but clearly its being done w/o vision. The Samplitude packages are a mess - but a steal when they do their extreme deals - especially now when bundled with Sonic Foundry stuff (Sound Forge Pro is *still* good; its great to see it finally 64 bit even though it's interface could use a ui makeover. And yes: i use it for some things other then just solely wavelab).
What I get from SoundPorn is that they have too many programs- which is to say not enough bakers to keep up with the demands of updating a wide selection. How could this truly be a factor when they do the same nothingness with all their apps equally. It's clearly a strategy under the hood. I think a lot of folks are looking at this from the perspective of a consumer rather than that of business. I'm not simply shooting from the hip. I actually research those behind the wheel to get a better perspective.

Klaus Schmidt, the CEO for example is listed as such: Klaus has been the CEO of MAGIX since 2015. He holds 24 years of C-level experience in retail, media and online industries. His areas of expertise lie in business development, international expansion and growth modeling, among others. Read more: https://www.magix.com/us/company/management/
Follow us: Google+ | Facebook

When you look at these guys background, you can see things differently. Ask yourselves some questions... does this guy even use any of their programs past or present or even have the time for such activities? Does he have a background in software development? What's his track record for innovation? Is he passionate about their products? When you have folks in charge with no personal investment or relationship with the products they sell, it's like flipping property purely for profit. In fact... imagine if Trump was the CEO. Would you still think the problem is too many products or an attitude of lets get the most while doing the very least. Would he care about more features or saving money?

Every company and corporation have bean counters. What company doesn't seek ways to maximize profits while cutting cost? Magix has well established products. They work, so the head people don't feel they need much expanding. How many features does a program really need a CEO may say. In other words, don't fix what ain't broken. They're saving $$$ on research and development and the need for a big development team. Their motto seems to be: Take what you have, throw in a few shiny knobs & some content then call it an upgrade. They apparently direct more resources into marketing, such as the product videos they produce, adverts on their sites and other areas including email. They also have adware in certain programs that bombard you with offers. This is their focus seemingly. Don't forget they're international, so they have to make advert content for other areas of the world. It takes a team & money for all this, so program development is the sacrificial lamb or not a big priority.

Take a moment to read some of these resources to get a broader perspective of my angle. https://www.capiton.com/presse-news/mag ... ware-gmbh/
https://us.sourcenext.com/case-study-magix/
https://www.crunchbase.com/person/klaus ... n-overview
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.magix.com

This company is a corporation with other interest beyond software programs. They acquired other companies but I lost the list. I've taken the time to attempt to support my theories by providing links that I feel are relevant to my perspectives. Perhaps they're not. Most folks will continue to just shoot straight from the hip with no point of reference. There's nothing more I can contribute to this conversation, so I guess we'll leave it at opposing views. That's fine. I thank you all for taking the time to participate in this thread. 8)

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When were Magix anything but a fly-by-night repackager of shareware? They are not a company I have ever taken seriously.
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pc2000 wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:10 am What I get from SoundPorn is that they have too many programs- which is to say not enough bakers to keep up with the demands of updating a wide selection. How could this truly be a factor when they do the same nothingness with all their apps equally. It's clearly a strategy under the hood. I think a lot of folks are looking at this from the perspective of a consumer rather than that of business. I'm not simply shooting from the hip. I actually research those behind the wheel to get a better perspective.

Klaus Schmidt, the CEO for example is listed as such: Klaus has been the CEO of MAGIX since 2015. He holds 24 years of C-level experience in retail, media and online industries. His areas of expertise lie in business development, international expansion and growth modeling, among others. Read more: https://www.magix.com/us/company/management/
Follow us: Google+ | Facebook

When you look at these guys background, you can see things differently. Ask yourselves some questions... does this guy even use any of their programs past or present or even have the time for such activities? Does he have a background in software development? What's his track record for innovation? Is he passionate about their products? When you have folks in charge with no personal investment or relationship with the products they sell, it's like flipping property purely for profit. In fact... imagine if Trump was the CEO. Would you still think the problem is too many products or an attitude of lets get the most while doing the very least. Would he care about more features or saving money?

Every company and corporation have bean counters. What company doesn't seek ways to maximize profits while cutting cost? Magix has well established products. They work, so the head people don't feel they need much expanding. How many features does a program really need a CEO may say. In other words, don't fix what ain't broken. They're saving $$$ on research and development and the need for a big development team. Their motto seems to be: Take what you have, throw in a few shiny knobs & some content then call it an upgrade. They apparently direct more resources into marketing, such as the product videos they produce, adverts on their sites and other areas including email. They also have adware in certain programs that bombard you with offers. This is their focus seemingly. Don't forget they're international, so they have to make advert content for other areas of the world. It takes a team & money for all this, so program development is the sacrificial lamb or not a big priority.

Take a moment to read some of these resources to get a broader perspective of my angle. https://www.capiton.com/presse-news/mag ... ware-gmbh/
https://us.sourcenext.com/case-study-magix/
https://www.crunchbase.com/person/klaus ... n-overview
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.magix.com

This company is a corporation with other interest beyond software programs. They acquired other companies but I lost the list. I've taken the time to attempt to support my theories by providing links that I feel are relevant to my perspectives. Perhaps they're not. Most folks will continue to just shoot straight from the hip with no point of reference. There's nothing more I can contribute to this conversation, so I guess we'll leave it at opposing views. That's fine. I thank you all for taking the time to participate in this thread. 8)
You seem quite hung up on the people behind the company. What point in summary are you actually trying to make?

Executive management, CEO will have a strategic vision and direction the company is to move in, the managers employed under that and if properly shared and executed then the employees below that will work to fulfil that vision.

If his vision is... "I want the best quality product in this market, how should we achieve that" that's what they'll aim for. The problem will arise when things like that vision isn't shared, there's problems with the execution, you're employing the wrong people, or your culture is not aligned with your vision or it's just the wrong vision, Or all of the above or more.

To simply point fingers at the management for not being DAW users, musicians or having development experience is irrelevant and ignorant of how business is actually run.

How many developers are also CEO's? And how many CEO's are musicians? And out of that, how many CEOS who are Musicians are also developers? And how many of that are successful at all three?

And in keeping with SoundPorns comments inline with my own - A fragmented product line, if not stretching development resources as you argue (which I disagree with) also serves nothing to simplify choice for the consumer. Customers faced with 'overchoice' will simply walk away with no choice and to a competitor instead. This is not shooting from the hip, research and real-world studies back this up.

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BONES wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:19 am When were Magix anything but a fly-by-night repackager of shareware? They are not a company I have ever taken seriously.
You called it.
They buy jalopies, slap a cheap coat of paint on them and then flip 'em. It's called Capitolism. I stay clear away. There's no future in anything they sell. Only the past.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.

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Coxy wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:32 pm You seem quite hung up on the people behind the company. What point in summary are you actually trying to make?

Executive management, CEO will have a strategic vision and direction the company is to move in, the managers employed under that and if properly shared and executed then the employees below that will work to fulfil that vision.

If his vision is... "I want the best quality product in this market, how should we achieve that" that's what they'll aim for. The problem will arise when things like that vision isn't shared, there's problems with the execution, you're employing the wrong people, or your culture is not aligned with your vision or it's just the wrong vision, Or all of the above or more.

To simply point fingers at the management for not being DAW users, musicians or having development experience is irrelevant and ignorant of how business is actually run.

How many developers are also CEO's? And how many CEO's are musicians? And out of that, how many CEOS who are Musicians are also developers? And how many of that are successful at all three?

And in keeping with SoundPorns comments inline with my own - A fragmented product line, if not stretching development resources as you argue (which I disagree with) also serves nothing to simplify choice for the consumer. Customers faced with 'overchoice' will simply walk away with no choice and to a competitor instead. This is not shooting from the hip, research and real-world studies back this up.
Like I stated... it's fine that we have opposing views. The folks at the top are responsible for the direction of a company or corporation and at the end of the day- they are the ones accountable when the sh*t hits the fan. If a company fails or gets in trouble such as the case with Facebook or any major entity, no one is looking for the tail for answers.

To address the CEO thing a little further... take Elon Musk of tesla. This guy is at the forefront of promoting their products. He's the face of tesla and shows great passion about their products. He has intricate involvement with every step of development and direction. Steve Jobs is another to consider. You understand where I'm coming from now? If your products are alien to you and it's nothing more than a commodity for you to sell... why would you give a rats ass about it's development? It's merely a cash cow. It's really not hard to understand.

Consider this... Magix is selling The old magix cleaning lab as sound-forge cleaning lab. It's the same damn program they been selling for years and has nothing to do with the sound-forge engine. It's nothing more than a re-branding of product. What does this have to do with development resources? I have to agree with the following comments, because it really does sum it up.
Orbit-50 wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:33 am
BONES wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:19 am When were Magix anything but a fly-by-night repackager of shareware? They are not a company I have ever taken seriously.
You called it.
They buy jalopies, slap a cheap coat of paint on them and then flip 'em. It's called Capitolism. I stay clear away. There's no future in anything they sell. Only the past.

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Augh. This has motivated my first comment here. They're a weird bunch with Sound Forge Branding. Consider Sound Forge Audio Studio, the cut rate entry level version of Sound Forge Pro. I had version 11, which was exactly as you'd expect, Sound Forge with a limited feature set. The version 12 came along and looked nothing like Sound Forge, it had audio restoration and spectral editing from Audio Lab, and icons and GUI elements from Samplitude. It worked for my needs though, so I happily went about using it. When they released version 13, I bought it and installed it, only to find out it now looks just like Sound Forge of old again, albeit 64 bit and with a new dark theme. More curiously, all of the restoration and spectral editing abilities had been stripped out! This had me scratching my head until the sudden appearance a few weeks later of the previously mentioned "Sound Forge Cleaning Lab" with a dubious claim of "ALL NEW!" scrawled all over it. Not only are they guilty of passing off old software as new by attaching the Sound Forge name to it, they're literally changing what Sound Forge is between versions!

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Also, the update to Samplitude Pro X4 Suite seems to be cheap right now. Why am I even thinking about this? Stop me, I have a problem!

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They've been pretty good stewards of Sound Forge. They've made it 64-bit, added VST3 support, more formats including DSD, DDP export, and they've enhanced and upgraded various modules within Sound Forge such as Wave Hammer. They have a forum and have been asking people to submit feature requests since they acquired it, and the oldest and most popular ones are being fulfilled. Honestly it's better than it was under Sony (though I highly respect and appreciate them rescuing it from Sonic Foundry and maintaining it in their own way, plus transitioning users every time).

Magix does have a relatively frequent update cycle but the improvements on this ancient code base costs money and it's obviously being put back into it. The cut-rate version is primarily meant to get people to upgrade, and the suite edition cobbles various things from their portfolio intended to sweeten the deal. Yeah, it's marketing, and if you're a fan of the non-primary products it makes more sense when see the resources put toward the primary one. If it ensures Sound Forge's long term life I'm okay with it.

As for Samplitude, again, they have forums. If they don't have a vision then isn't it better to have a democracy?

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toddbooster wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:00 pm Also, the update to Samplitude Pro X4 Suite seems to be cheap right now. Why am I even thinking about this? Stop me, I have a problem!
:hihi: you made me look, toddbooster! I dunno: if its stable; takes advantage of that many cores efficiently; and has notation built-in - i could think of worse deals that what its current upgrade price is. My fear is that it could be 'nag-screen city' every time you opened it :hihi: - Magix hitting you up for every conceiveable upgrade/crossgrade of whats included in X4 -

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yellowmix wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:27 am
As for Samplitude, again, they have forums. If they don't have a vision then isn't it better to have a democracy?
They have a forum which is pitiable short of useful info. and it feels like if there are any users with issues they are staying mute for the most part. it is the worst forum if you are looking for helpful info. The ex-soundforge products are not being developed much and over time we can expect to see those apps assimilated into Magix cheap and cheerful products like Audio Studio, Video Studio etc, etc. Yes they are 64 bit. apart from that and some generic plugins of theirs, there is nothing really new in Acid, a program i used a lot and was fond of. The truth is there is no clear direction for development. and i don't expect to see any statements to the contrary in the near future. The so-called 'upgrade' for X3 to X4 is, to say the least, very poor, worthy of a fractional number upgrade and certainly not from 3 > 4... just an opinion from someone who thinks SAM has some amazing features.

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