KVR Audio

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:52 pm

Hi Everyone,

I am sure this topic has been discussed to death on this forum and elsewhere, but I am hoping that someone can direct me to accurate information regarding the input levels I should be aiming for when recording hardware synths and guitars into Ableton (or any other DAW for that matter). There is a lot of confusing information on the internet in general regarding DAW input levels, meters, 0 dB v. -18dB, etc., and I just want to see if the members here could point me to good information on this issue.

Thanks in advance!

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:04 pm

Just don't ever clip it.

You can aim for an average of -18dBfs or peaks not exceeding -6dBfs. Just don't ever let it clip. And keep some headroom.

nerner · Post by **nerner** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:17 pm

BertKoor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:04 pm Just don't ever clip it.

You can aim for an average of -18dBfs or peaks not exceeding -6dBfs. Just don't ever let it clip. And keep some headroom.

^^^This

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:37 pm

OK - thanks! One follow up - would either of you happen to know whether the input meter in Ableton Arrangement view displays in dbfs? If not, is there a VST plugin that I can use to measure the input signal?

Edit: would using this in "peak" meter mode do the trick?

http://maxforlive.com/library/device/46 ... army-meter

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 am

For recording the peak is crucial, any daw which I know will show you a read light if you clip. After its recorded don‘t worry about red lights unless they appear on the master... (DAWs work with 32-bit floats inside. Practically unclippable...)

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Shooting for -18 average is good but do keep in mind the logical and musical aspects of that. For example, a slow sustained sound like a string pad will have an average and peak level in much the same place while more transient or dynamic signals will have average and peaks far away from each other. There is some common sense involved in that.

Using numbers for "static rules" like that doesn't really work without understanding the underlying musical content and/or the dynamic ranges of varying content, but as long as you don't clip you can't really harm anything.

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:08 pm

Thank you all for your assistance on this. I can certainly aim for the averages and peaks everyone describes, while keeping the dynamic range of the audio content in mind. One follow-up question - while I can certainly try to keep the audio from clipping, does it make sense to record with a limiter on the track set at -6 dbfs just in case?

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:12 pm

Just make sure you have a good level without clipping it. I never use limiters at the recording stage.

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:28 pm

Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 am For recording the peak is crucial, any daw which I know will show you a read light if you clip. After its recorded don‘t worry about red lights unless they appear on the master... (DAWs work with 32-bit floats inside. Practically unclippable...)

Sorry for being so dense, but why would I need to worry about clipping on the master if the individual tracks (post recording) are practically unclippable?

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:52 pm

Because your dac isn‘t... (That device which translates all that digital wonders into analog sound...)

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:57 pm

Ah - makes sense. Thanks!

bharris22 · Post by **bharris22** » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:34 am

Now that I understand a little better the levels I am trying to reach (and knowing I have to use my ears), can someone recommend a good, low CPU meter VST that will show both peak and RMS levels in dBFS? I am using Ableton, and the meters in Arrangement view don't display precise measurements for these parameters.

Thanks again!

RichieWitch · Post by **RichieWitch** » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:32 pm

bharris22 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:34 am I am using Ableton, and the meters in Arrangement view don't display precise measurements for these parameters.

Are you sure?

By default, each channel in Arrangement view is too narrow to show the precise sound levels, however, you can both widen the channels, and lengthen the overall meter (click and drag on the edges with your mouse), and it will reveal measurements to two decimal places for peak, one decimal place for gain, and plenty of markers on the meter. Check out the pic.

If you're looking for something more comprehensive, I'd pick up a copy of Computer Music Magazine where you can get a magware copy of VPS Scope, which has meters, spectrum analyzer, waveforms displays, phase measurement, and pretty much anything else you can think of.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:38 pm

That pic is from the session view ... but no reason not to use them while recording.

RichieWitch · Post by **RichieWitch** » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:43 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:38 pm That pic is from the session view ... but no reason not to use them while recording.

Doh!

You're absolutely right. Thanks for catching that.

External Instrument Recording Levels?