Ableton Live 10.1 now in Beta

[antic604]

Alas it's true ... Ronald definitely had more expression in his performance, could watch the man for hours!

Not surprised, since you can't seem to be capable of using forum's quote function...

Well, believe it or not Ableton definitely works on MPE and MIDI channels support, it just requires tons of work behind the scenes. Just like it was the case with VST3.

[mcbpete]

u ok hun?

[SLiC]

Obviously people are hearing different things. Ronald Jenkees can play, but it sounded like every other (good) keyboard performance I have heard. To me the MPE stuff is a level above in expression, possibly as I am primarily a guitarist and hear the individual note vibrato and bends behind the chords.

[Gamma-UT]

One of the most succinct demonstrations of why MPE is useful to people is in one of Roger Linn's videos for the Linnstrument. It's no secret to guitar players: start with two different notes and then bend one up to unison with the other.

Obviously, this can be done using monophonic-per-MIDI-channel instruments in a rack or group in Live, but it's a bit of a faff to set up and not a great use of synths that are already MPE compatible.

[antic604]

u ok hun?

I'm fine. Thanks for asking

[SLiC]

One of the most succinct demonstrations of why MPE is useful to people is in one of Roger Linn's videos for the Linnstrument. It's no secret to guitar players: start with two different notes and then bend one up to unison with the other.

Obviously, this can be done using monophonic-per-MIDI-channel instruments in a rack or group in Live, but it's a bit of a faff to set up and not a great use of synths that are already MPE compatible.

Yes, this is a very common for guitarist (probably in just about every guitar solo ever heard!) that can now be done with MPE, but also I don't think the natural vibrato should be underestimated. Vibrato is on of the most useful and most expressive weapons in any performers arsenal, from vocalists to guitarists- players like BB King were distinguished by the vibrato technique that can now be applied to MPE even when holding down a chord or bass with the left hand- 2 hands on the board at all times and no unnatural one hand off for a pitch wheel across all notes or mapping afetrtouch to vibrato that effects everything and pressing down rather than 'wobbling' your finger is so unnatural!...

[teilo]

Gimmick? I suppose it might seem like a gimmick to someone who does not own an MPE controller. But for those who do, how, exactly is polyphonic expression a gimmick?

Let me be more precise...

For live performance... I am with you... can be partly a big help, while I doubt there are many situations where you can really differ between poly and monophonic modulation...

In the studio: I cannot imagine a single situation, where this might bring something on the table, which cannot be done in another way a million times better... that´s why I cannot understand all the crying about bringing MPE support in every DAW forum...

It's not just live performance. I realize that a fair number of producers are working on-screen most of the time, using a keyboard mostly just to capture the notes. That's not how I work, and it's not how a lot of people work. We are recording a performance, and then tweaking said performance, and it's WAY less work to record that multi-timbral expression when playing than creating a bunch of automation afterward note-by-note.

By your logic, you might as well argue that using mod wheels, expression pedals, aftertouch, and velocity is a million times worse than creating automation on-screen from scratch.

Your logic doesn't even hold then. You CANNOT do per-note modulation in a polyphonic track without MPE (with the exception, perhaps of polyphonic aftertouch, which Live also does not support).

So you can complain about people begging for MPE in this or that DAW because you are tired of hearing it if you wish. But at least understand MPE before you disregard the need for it.

[PieBerger]

With the announcement of MIDI2.0, which as I understand it will replace MPE, is it worth Ableton's development time to come up with a stop gap measure in the meantime, to satiate such a small percentage of it's overall user base?

[teilo]

With the announcement of MIDI2.0, which as I understand it will replace MPE, is it worth Ableton's development time to come up with a stop gap measure in the meantime, to satiate such a small percentage of it's overall user base?

It will not replace MPE, per-se. MPE is part of the 2.0 standard because 1.0 in its entirety is part of the 2.0 standard. But it will offer a completely new protocol that supports polyphonic expression in a far more elegant fashion.

[whyterabbyt]

With the announcement of MIDI2.0, which as I understand it will replace MPE, is it worth Ableton's development time to come up with a stop gap measure in the meantime, to satiate such a small percentage of it's overall user base?

Within the glacial timeframe it will probably take for the agreement on MIDI2, almost certainly.

[Spencer Maddox]

Relax please.
You are acting like I just went on a rant against Ableton because of MPE, All I said was one sentence, I just think It stinks that It does not have MPE yet because Bitwig, Cubase, Logic all easily support it and Ableton is the Odd man Out here. And when It prides itself on being a LIVE daw, and MPE is a very useful LIVE tool, I feel like it's an omission.
And It's not Exactly a gimmick, of-course you can make music without it but I've found using my Seaboard with Bitwig to be a Blast as far as creativity and making more innovative sounds is concerned. It makes it all more fun in a way. All I said was it was an ideal Update besides that, sorry if other people go on and on about MPE But I was not aware, nor was I trying to beat an apparently Dead Horse.

Was nothing against specially your post...
You were only the last one mentioning it...

Ah, Sorry If I sounded aggressive in My Response. I understand you'd be frustrated if its mentioned non stop on a consistent basis.
That being said it DOES appear to be wanted by A lot of people, At least as far as KVR is Concerned. For all we know Ableton is appealing to its larger base that does not use the Expensive MPE Equipment and doesn't find it to be useful to implement yet.

[pdxindy]

You are still way underestimating MPE...

This would be impossible on a regular midi keyboard... including in the studio.

Ronald Jenkees could do it

Obviously you are joking... not even in the same galaxy

[pdxindy]

One of the most succinct demonstrations of why MPE is useful to people is in one of Roger Linn's videos for the Linnstrument. It's no secret to guitar players: start with two different notes and then bend one up to unison with the other.

Obviously, this can be done using monophonic-per-MIDI-channel instruments in a rack or group in Live, but it's a bit of a faff to set up and not a great use of synths that are already MPE compatible.

Yeah, try telling every guitarist that they can only bend a note in post in the studio...

[pdxindy]

It's not just live performance. I realize that a fair number of producers are working on-screen most of the time, using a keyboard mostly just to capture the notes. That's not how I work, and it's not how a lot of people work. We are recording a performance, and then tweaking said performance, and it's WAY less work to record that multi-timbral expression when playing than creating a bunch of automation afterward note-by-note.

It's just not possible... Try taking some great blues singer, and replicate their performance by pasting little bits together.

[PieBerger]

With the announcement of MIDI2.0, which as I understand it will replace MPE, is it worth Ableton's development time to come up with a stop gap measure in the meantime, to satiate such a small percentage of it's overall user base?

Within the glacial timeframe it will probably take for the agreement on MIDI2, almost certainly.

In that case perhaps MPE is likely to come to Live before then. It's been a good few years since Push2 was launched and Ableton are no doubt working on a successor. Perhaps they have plans for Push3 to be MPE compliant and will thus wait until they launch it before rolling out MPE support to all users with a new update. Announcing Push3 too early would likely hurt the sales of Push2, as would a point release update with MPE support imo. It's reasonable to assume that if Live supports MPE, that Push3 would also be MPE compliant , Ableton would be mad not to design it that way, thus sales would likely slump as potential buyers wait out the impending release of the newer, shinier, more capable model.