Live 9 vs. 10...

[Spencer Maddox]

To Throw my 2 Cents in Live 10 is much better then Live 9.
It's hard to pinpoint the Value of the Update on Paper until you actually use the Program. Its all the Small things that just made the workflow in it so much faster.
Wavetable is perhaps my new favorite "Quick Sound" synth due to how easy and fast it is to make something with it, It's surprisingly complex once you mess with it to, by no means has it killed my use of Say a Serum or Falcon (add the ability to import wavetables and we can talk) but it's BY FAR my favorite Live Synth. Also the GUI and Push 2 Enhancements are fantastic, the Max Integration is extremely convenient. The New Audio Effects are Well Executed, and the general workflow enhancements are just great.

I actually agree with some parts of the UI however, I'm not sure why But I kinda miss the...Well i'm not sure how to describe it. How the Clips where kinda Transparent in Background in 9/8/etc and Not Filled Completely with Color like they are now? I know I explained that Terribly but I miss that Look, Some Love the new one however so thats just my personal artistic opinion and by no means a dealbreaker, and minus me cherrypicking that, I couldn't imagine going back to 9 anytime soon.

HOWEVER, the Price was a little much in my opinion. I Hope the 299$ I threw at Ableton for this Update means that I will get 5 Years of Quality additions like we did with 9 because outright it's not quite worth THAT much, even with how much better it is...

[codec_spurt]

I'm perfectly happy with Live 9 Standard. I'm still happy with Live 8 in fact. I still use it to make tracks and sometimes finish old ones. I even use the Akai edition (8 track iirc) to limit myself to be creative and make music and finish tracks.

I've been using Live 10 though - the basic 8 track version - and you can do a lot with that as well. It's a good upgrade, but not really necessary for me, though I will get it when I have to (new Komplete keyboard).

I don't feel I'm missing out by sticking with 9 for now, or by just having Standard and not Suite. Less things to be distracted by. It does its job. And it's got a more manageable footprint when you are juggling other DAWs in the process.

Live is right up there with the cream of DAWs. I may even get a Push at some point if I don't get a new Maschine. Or I may just stay content with the new little Akai 25 controller I'm about to get for it.

I do miss having Operator and the full Sampler though, but even then, I get by just fine with other stuff.

I like the new cosmetic improvements though with 10 - definitely a bit sharper and defined.

[rod_zero]

One thing where Ableton is quite different now to other developers is the long updates cycles for major versions, 8-9-10 has been 4 years each, to me it shows the company doesn't want to milk customers as much as the competition. It is also nice to adapt to changes.

[EnGee]

I have demoed version 10 Suite. The upgrade price is very steep for me (I have v9 Standard).
It's cheaper if I buy it in the 2nd hand market and sell mine I think.

Anyway, I really don't think I need it. I'm really fine with 9 Standard. I also have Bitwig if I need to delve deeper into modulations.

It also the question if I will end buying Push 2 or Maschine (MK3 or Mikro). All of that is accessory for me though! I'm sure that I have more than I need for all my musical needs, and I might keep it with 'eco' workflow

[Mister Natural]

agree that the "enhancements" from v.9 > 10 are incrementally small . . . for $300. Bought the pre-release of 10 for a discount and did that $ primarily to support the developers & their good work. I have been a relatively glitch-free user since v.6 (v.8 was not my fave tbh).
As mentioned above, it's always 4 or 5 yrs before the next v.11 might come out and there will be plenty of free 10.x updates between now and then. These kinds of updates are often very impactful on the content of LIVE.

[codec_spurt]

Just a little tip for the marketing lads and lasses at Ableton:

You did this amazing new 'synth' called "Wavetable", is it?

Don't really remember as you didn't include it in the 'demo' of Live Lite 10. Not complaining. Quite the contrary. Just wanted to say thanks, in fact.

If you had included a 'demo' of it, and it had been really really good, well, I might have had to buy it, or at least get the full version of Live 10 (which includes it). Now you and I both know a synth has to be pretty good these days to get that kind of response. It's better marketing to let people miss out on what they might have had rather than hand it to them on a (slightly smaller) plate and remove all (some) doubt. I'll never know.

And I'll never miss it. Lots of people say it's good. I wouldn't know. Guess it can't be all that or you would have laid temptation at my door.

I've moved on. If I do upgrade to 10 it will be because I have to (Komplete Keyboard) not because I want to (great new Wavetable synth). I will upgrade at some point though.


Take a leaf out of the book of Presonus. Studio One recently included an amazing feature where you can right click on any of your loops in the browser and have them sliced and mapped to a new version of Impact XT or their Sampler. Just had to have it. 50 quid. But 50 quid well spent. Everything else was a bonus.

Now, imagine if they had not included that in their 'demo'. I wouldn't have known how absolutely essential it was. They laid temptation at my door. And I'm weak...

There's no hard feelings. I love the Ableton lads and lasses. Live is somewhat unique and very much indispensable. I'm along for the ride. So thanks for not tempting me too much. You go to all that trouble to provide a 'demo' that really hits that sweet spot between 'usability' and 'I got to have more'. But yet fail to provide the final sprinkling of the crack that could push even the most reluctant of the updaters over the edge (when they want to be pushed as well).

I can only see this as social consciense writ large by your marketing department, and both I and my wallet thank them for it.

One day, I shall know the wonders of Wavetable. But for now, I just have to make do with my Korg padKONTROL hooked up to Impact XT with all my files and loops instantly and intelligently sliced to perfection. It's not easy having a good time!

Sarcasm aside, Live 10 Lite is a step in the right direction. It's a very generous 'demo'. It's got me sold. I'll be upgrading next time you do a sale.

[pottering]

Live Lite is not really a demo. It is OEM software.

Ableton Live 10 Suite has a separate actual demo (30-day trial), which does have Wavetable, fully functional.

https://www.ableton.com/en/trial/

The Lite version is small, but it grants the user a real license, you can use it for work, if you can deal with the limits.

The trial is just for evaluation:

9. Trial Licenses
The purpose of the Trial Licenses is to facilitate the decision-making process with regards to acquiring a commercial version. Any other use, including, but not limited to, resale, transfer, or public use, is strictly prohibited. This condition extends beyond the trial period, regardless of whether Software is running with a restricted feature set or not.

Regarding the main topic, Live 10 is way better than 9.

Way too many things to list, plus there are many small improvements you don't even note (but make a lot of difference).

Honestly, I suspect that if Live 10 had lots of new showy devices one can list with bullet points (instead of nameless but good improvements) some people would simply call those "bloatware", and mindlessly dismiss them as "worthless" anyway.

[EnGee]

I agree that version 10 has better fonts and more enhanced workflow. I loaded Live lite 10 yesterday and overall experience is very good. I don't care that much for the new synth or Max or any additional contents, but the workflow and enhancements are important.
I might upgrade to Standard 10 when there is a 40% discount. For now, the upgrade price from Standard 9 to 10 is still steep for me besides Version 9 is still working great with me.

[mutantdog]

Since Live 10 was released there have been several additional Live packs added as freebies for Suite including some interesting M4L stuff. While not perfect the stronger integration between M4L and Live makes for a smoother workflow. It does seem the case that they are really pushing users towards Suite now, at the time of upgrade there was a pretty fair price for going from 9 Standard to 10 Suite.

As with 9 before it, the value seems to be in the significant .x updates and the fact that 10 will likely be around and built upon for a while. So comparing 9.6 to 10.0 might not seem like much but give it a couple of years and who knows what will be added.

My biggest complaint is the inability to increase font size without having to zoom in on the whole thing, although the browser is still far from perfect.

[antic604]

I still have lots of issues with changes in v10 (esp. automation) but I upgraded because of:
- high-DPI support, because in v9 it was either sharp UI + tiny VSTs or blurry UI + correct size VSTs,
- touchpad zoom & scrolling,
- multi-clip editing,
- MIDI note chasing
- nested groups,
- Utility going to -inf dB

[Kinh]

Live 10, most noticeable change is arrangement view. Most of the 9 users complained about arrangement so for that reason upgrade is worth it.

[papawillow]

Live 10 I think was suited more to Suite users .. as the Suite upgrade offer was attractive back then ... but ! as a Standard 9 user I did not want 50 gigs of samples and instruments that I already had covered. Unfortunately since the Standard 9 users have been burnt by Ableton on the 10 Upgrade IMO. ( especially since I have upgraded since 1.5 so was expecting a bit of love ) .

[antic604]

I did not want 50 gigs of samples and instruments that I already had covered

You don't have to. I downloaded just a few and the rest just shows up as a link in the browser in case I ever wanted them.

Unfortunately since the Standard 9 users have been burnt by Ableton on the 10 Upgrade IMO.( especially since I have upgraded since 1.5 so was expecting a bit of love ).

How exactly were you "burnt"? Because from what I remember users could upgrade 9 Standard -> 9 Suite (and then get 10 Suite for free) cheaper than I could upgrade 9 Suite to 10 Suite.

Ableton just prefers their users to be on Suite because a) it's easier to maintain single branch of code, especially now that M4L is "integrated" and b) because they can more easily extend native functionalities of Live with M4L devices, like they did this year with FREE Creative Extensions and Probability Pack that are only available for Suite.

So it's rather you burned yourself by overlooking a great opportunity and now blame Ableton for it.

[papawillow]

How can you burn yourself when every upgrade has bee basically 125-150usd? Was I expecting too much in good faith!

[antic604]

How can you burn yourself when every upgrade has bee basically 125-150usd? Was I expecting too much in good faith!

You seem to be upset that the developers want money for their work - am I getting this right?

How would you feel if your boss - or clients, if you're self-employed - told you they won't pay you this month, because you've been doing the same thing you did previous month and they expect that of you for free in good faith?

If you're paid too little - change the job.

If you think the upgrade isn't worth the price - don't upgrade.