Questions about Reaper

[JerGoertz]

Anyone with Reaper experience, please tell me about its capabilities wrt:

- PDC : Is it robust and well-spec'd?

- Curved automation : Does it offer Bezier splines/etc., or only straight-line automation?

- CPU usage

- Stability

- Retrospective record : This is one of the reasons I haven't left Cubase; a lot of DAWs don't have this, and it's absolutely essential for me.

- Keyboard shortcut modifiability : I've heard one of Reaper's big strong points is its customizability. I really like Cubase's ability to assign any key to any shortcut; can Reaper do this? Also, does Reaper have shortcuts for moving the playhead backward/forward 1 bar? (A seemingly simple feature which Cubase has but which is missing on other DAWs).

Thanks!

[woggle]

give it a try - answers to all your points are positive
eg on my setup ctrl+arrow shift cursor one bar, ctrl+shift+arrow shifts one beat (with scrubbing)

generally with Reaper anything computational is exceptionally well handled.
eg there is almost no limit to shortcut functionality and mouse modification. I have Reaper set up so that if I double click on the lower half of an audio item it opens a copy up in my external editor where I can edit and save and there is the saved version ready to use back in Reaper. Whereas if I double click in the bottom half of a midi item it opens the original in the internal editor. I could have a midi item copy open but I don't want that. A simple key modifier could change that behaviour completely so that the items open up in completely different editors - or more or less anything else reaper can do.

[huberkinky]

I use it because basically there is not other option form me. The programmer is brilliant. But..... IMHO developer is trying to make DAW better than anyone else. And that will cause you at least a year solid work, to find YOUR way around it and heaps of frustration, before you will be able working like a pro.

I started with Bars and Pipes. I knew nothing about mixing and MIDI and HATED that thing. Friend gave me a demo of Cubase MIDI program and fallen in love with it. 15 minutes of couching with basics and I was... composing without any problems.

Making some great quantizing with great DNA grooves etc.

That I bought PTools with hardware, but before I was recording my first record in a studio for a a month, not coaching but we were recording full CD. I knew nothing about DAW and have learned some basics.

So I bought full hardware version of PT and still have it. Maybe I have looked several time to manual but I was recording my first CD in PT without any major swearing. Learning rather recording tricks and info about how to sing, arrange.

That I was using Logic for some time for MIDI. For Audio was a bit to different, the same was with Cubase. Didn't liked both of them and it was maybe 2006.

Still using PT, 4 years ago I bought Reaper and initially I was surprised with the size of the installer 9 Mb, and amount of plugins I could use in one mix, far more that on my hardware old PTools.

But, I was not ready before 2 years passed to make full mixes without any major hassles, like I can still do in PT.

Where is the problem?

I think I have figure it out.

My old PT has 1/3 of options if compare with Reaper, but I can still deliver on PTools full great mixes without searching for hours on Internet for solutions.

The problem is, PT, when they were developed, coders were in constant contacts with studios and they were listen pro mixers and they were delivering the top well researched stuff and work flow.

With Reaper you will have to spent countless hours to find all solutions for some silly simple problem. MIDI is horrible. Worst I have even seen.

The biggest problem is: the coder of Reaper has not idea how an artist is working. Because he is a great coder, but you can't be a coder and artist. Or one or other.

To cut long story short. If you are a composer, all your creativity will go through the window, when you will try to put in in DAW. In most of the time to many thing will annoy you. If you just want to play and have fun, no problem beside some frustrations. If you're not making mixes for labels or clients, you will be OK.

I'm making music since 1993. So that's my experience.

Definitely Reaper is fantastically coded, very stable, easy on CPU but keep away from using VST 3 plugins, free ones badly coded and cracked ones! But the way is organized, you will pay the price: sometime huge frustration, because many tasks in Cubase or other DAW's were so easy to do.

Once I have asked at Reaper forum, why they never made 3 scripts of settings, which will make start on Reaper for ex users from Cubase or Logic o PTools as easy as possible. I was treated with utter hostility!

I guess I have stuck with Reaper and will still use it. If I would have $'s, I would go immediately back to PT hardware version. But as a DAW without such hardware, Reaper is a brilliant! But it will cause you a lot of frustration!

On new PC with 16 Gb RAM and fast CPU I can make with a comfort mixes 100 tracks with heaps of plugins and that beast will use mostly 45% of CPU.

Also, don't use NEW, not well produced plugins version 1.0. Reaper has great coding and most crashes I had were with plugins and with VST3 on two different computers.

So here we go. Sorry for my rant, but that is just my experience - good and bad as well.

[JerGoertz]

Thanks to both of you for your perspectives. Good food for thought.

[woggle]

there is some truth in what huberkinky says - I dont think things are that bad, but if youre making conventional music then other programs are possibly better. Have you looked at bandlab Cakewalk? I think it is pretty good and in many ways easier to use than Reaper - and it is free
https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk

[do_androids_dream]

but keep away from using VST 3 plugins

I've been using VST3 plugins from Waves, Izotope, Voxengo, Boz Digital and a few other devs for a good long while now without any problems in Reaper. I don't think it's necessarily 'VST3's' fault when a VST3 plugin has problems - it could be any number of other things within the code.

[EvilDragon]

Yeah I have a number of VST3 plugins and they all work fine in Reaper. HALion 6, u-he, Cakewalk, Melodyne, Roland, TAL, Waldorf, Klanghelm... all fine.


And no, MIDI is not horrible.

[huberkinky]

And no, MIDI is not horrible.

It is! No chances to match to Logic or Cubase in next 20 years. Reaper can't even show chords!

And that is horrible. You can't make MIDI file longer without special effort!

It's even worse than MIDI in PT I bought in 1997! Maybe has some new features, but in PTools I feel like I'm doing something and I don't have to look for a manual!

Reaper is fantastic, but needs serious adjustments, how he is configured.

It is pointless to develop a program, which has new problems, especially in MIDI, while Cubase and Logic are miles ahead.

Unless... you are making something so brilliant, that those two will be scared of new competitor.

Reaper in not a competitor in MIDI at all. IMHO.[/size]

But in recording field IT IS a sleeping GIANT! But needs some serious polishing.

[ruslan.st]

Midi in Reaper is very good. There is nothing much different and worse than in other DAWs. Maybe look&feel can be slightly better, but its not horrible.

[dr_After]

LOL I work mainly with MIDI and Reaper (making electronic music for years now), was working in sonar and Cubase earlier and I REALLY don't lack anything in MIDI department in Reaper. Especially with scripts that can trigger custom actions. I think that MIDI in Reaper is really decent and the workflow is fast. If someone states "MIDI in reaper is horrible" I would really ask for examples, because for me it isn't horrible at all.

[chk071]

I often read here that MIDI in this or that DAW is good or bad. Always wondered what it meant.

[inkwarp]

[quote=huberkinky post_id=7235486 time=1543306948
The biggest problem is: the coder of Reaper has not idea how an artist is working. Because he is a great coder, but you can't be a coder and artist. Or one or other.[/quote]
sorry, this is a very broad statement and it isn't always the case.
some even consider coding itself an art.
reaper is trying to be the middle ground of DAWs so there are always going to be differing and subjective opinions about it. it doesn't necessarily mean it's tough to learn either. no more than equivalent DAWs. i used FL for a while and that could be desperately frustrating and sometime just plain unintuitive.
there are DAWs which are very immediate ( i would say Studio One and progs. like Acid whch i also used productively for a time). For me progs. like Cubase can be frustratingly opaque. i guess it's down to personal experience.
you can't please all the people all the time.

[inkwarp]

The biggest problem is: the coder of Reaper has not idea how an artist is working. Because he is a great coder, but you can't be a coder and artist. Or one or other.

sorry, this is a very broad statement and it isn't always true.
some even consider coding itself an art.
reaper is trying to be the middle ground of DAWs so there are always going to be differing and subjective opinions about it. it doesn't necessarily mean it's tough to learn either. no more than equivalent DAWs. i used FL for a while and that could be desperately frustrating and sometime just plain unintuitive.
there are DAWs which are very immediate ( i would say Studio One and progs. like Acid whch i also used productively for a time). For me progs. like Cubase can be frustratingly opaque. i guess it's down to personal experience.

[huberkinky]

sorry, this is a very broad statement and it isn't always true.
some even consider coding itself an art.

We could argue about it.

Usually they are to different, so different from each other, that is hard to be both.

But, where is the problem. Coding is IMHO the most difficult task for a human brain, and developer of Reaper is one of the very best coders on this Earth. I have no slightest doubts about it.

Reaper as a DAW has so many wonderful features, that most DAW's doesn't even come closer.

But there is a challenge which IMHO have to be seriously consider.

PTool, the king in hardware DAW's will soon be not on the market. Two more years and again more powerful computers and who will need hardware PTools for a fortune?
Avid had good coders as well and if they will try hard, they will be still the king of the market and PT will be the best tool.

Reaper has huge chances to be a king! What is stopping it? These small but highly annoying settings.

There is one guy, who came from the camp of PTools and made some scripts for Reaper to be more PT compatible. Some you can d/load for free but for some he wants money.

What this tells you?

Recording and mixing on pro level it's an enormous task, heaps of knowledge and experiences. It's not for everyone. Not many people can handle it! Not many pros are willing to tell their tricks.

Even some pros do not understand delays or reverbs or compressors etc.

Reaper has one man, who i IMHO keeping Reaper running Kenny Gioia and we were at DUC forum (PTools) when Avid was working on PTools and we both know, how things were consulted with pro mixers. And that's why PTool is today an industry standard.

I don't know if Kenny is giving any hints to developer of Reaper. Personally I don't think so.

But considering a HUGE complexity of recording, composing and mixing the tool should be as easy as possible to use after 15 minutes some basic instructions. I mean with recording MIDI and audio and let's say 10-20 tracks in the first section effort.
I could not do it in Reaper at all. What about guys who want to try it?

PT has made some great effort and I have read manual partially few times. It was an easy journey.
I read about Cubase, Logic and many others and I would agree with you.

Cubase can be frustratingly opaque. i guess it's down to personal experience.

Agree with that. Lately I've d/loaded Cubas basic, because I wanted to use Cubase MIDI instead of Reaper. Especially with enormous help with MIDI chord progression. Unfortunately the version on basic Cubase is useless for me and can't cough the full version just for MIDI. But the whole basic version of Cubase, can't remember but over 1 Gb d/load, compare Reaper 9 MB!!!!!!
And Cubase it is very clumsy.

And Reaper as a DAW I lov it but... took me 4 years to learn a lot to use it.

Also... I have discarded some tools and developed my own way to use a different way of working. Example: grouping of tracks. To complicated and weird that's why I'm using my own method and works very fast and very easy.

And Kenny Gioia is the man who is keeping Reaper going stronn! Many thanx Kenny for all your free tutorials!

[THE INTRANCER]

Coding is logic driven, you are bound by a certain number of rules in which you need to adhere to, and those who are adept at sticking to those rules and remembering them are generally better at following them, than those who think with more artistic freedom, looking at things without constraints and with a broader understanding of what one is suppose to see and interact with that makes sense to them are better suited to the artistic side. Art itself is a form of communication, and if you are unable to effectively convey that so another person or person's can interpret it in an immediate way, then the likelihood is that one is going to struggle to comprehend it.

With DAWs, you really want things to be concise and to the point, not with mile long descriptions of what a feature is, that you're actually gonna click on. That's just one aspect of visual communication, that you really shouldn't ignore.